Wild Tech Spawning

Discussion in 'Open' started by Redlegdaddy, Jun 24, 2018.

  1. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    So after much experimentation, it would seem that enemy techs will only spawn if you are moving while at least some distance from any fixed position techs. I imagine this was done to ease early game where a bad tech drop while you are building etc can result in losing everything.

     
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  2. Khaine

    Khaine Well-Known Member

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    I get the funny feeling that enemy AI will spawn near your friendly AI techs/factories if you're far enough away. Not because of said friendly AI being there, but rather because it's the "right" distance from you for an enemy AI spawn.

     
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  3. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it will but only if you are moving, if you sit still enemy techs will not spawn.

     
  4. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Hmm, so you're saying that if you control an anchored tech, placed next to another anchored tech, then you should get no enemy spawns at all, even when there are none around you already....?

    Hmm, I have suspected that motion might be a caveat, but most people see techs accumulating around them while in base.

    What kind of motion is necessary? Would spinning an rotating anchor count? Or creeping a little back and forwards on the spot? Going around in circles? Or does one actually have to cover distance? Or being going at speed, not just transferring between static techs?

    I've done an amount of testing of spawn mechanics too, a while back. We were told that enemies should not be able to spawn within 100m of a friendly (anchored) tech. And that enemies spawning on, or adjacent to, bases was a bug.

    So I tried making a spawn blocking setup, with a ring of anchored tech just beyond 200m, and my results were inconclusive (or, I wasn't sure anyway, if it was being flaky, or what).

     
    #4 ZeroGravitas, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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  5. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    The motion does not have to be huge but does have to be continuous. Enemies will spawn near friendly techs but not next to techs that you are relatively close to, this is why when you leave your base and come back you can have a spawns drop near your shiz. Pretty easy to test, make a simple fixed tech then sit in a mobile tech right next to it, no spawns will drop within your radar distance. I ran a 12 hour test and had zero spawns in radar distance.

     
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  6. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Will have to test more, again, sometime (like most things). I had wondered if I'd need to make some kind of setup for continual motion, for an auto-farm.

    Anyway, there's an of exploit with spawning: if you go straight up, like a fairly long way (not sure of the cap) then you can get unlimited techs spawning below. Or you did - I've have seen @reaperx1 do it in a video.

     
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  7. harpo99999

    harpo99999 ah kick till it starts

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    I have seen similar, when I was mining out a set of erudite seams

     
  8. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    But can't you account for that purely with by the 300m spawn exclusion radius around the player? Didn't you find 4 enemies sat just beyond radar vision? Or were out on a big salt flats and could see for sure there were no enemies out there at all?

    The only reason enemies appear to spawn near to you is the distance you cover while moving, in the time between the spawn event and their bomb finally reaching the ground (quite a few seconds). Right?

     
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  9. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    Basically, I have never had an enemy spawn on a base that I was sitting at and that was what the 12 hours test was for. The exclusion zone is definitely more like 100m radius and again during my tests spawning seems to turn off if my mobile tech is not moving. So my findings show that actual movement is needed to enable spawns, which makes sense from a gameplay standpoint.

     
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  10. Lost Ninja

    Lost Ninja Well-Known Member

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    This has not been my experience of spawning.

    If you're near an anchored friendly structure things will spawn.

    If you're sitting still (maybe AFK) things will spawn.

    And if you're moving things will spawn.

    In fact the only way I have found to prevent random spawns gate crashing my fixed base is to surround it with OP sentry turrets.

    Generally speaking stuff appears to spawn closer to you when you're moving, sometimes even right next to you with zero warning (which I suspect is a bug). But having wild techs spawn around you is one of the reasons I will sit and watch videos (2 monitors) while waiting for things to spawn so I can kill them. :)

     
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  11. reaperx1

    reaperx1 Crazed Builder

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    I'm not sure if it still works as it did then, but after I went far enough up they would just spawn more and more in. In the video I went up to 1 ooo ooo ft, but that was mostly to take up time to allow more enemies to spawn.
    If I had of held an altitude of about 30 000 ft for the same amount of time I think it would have worked the same.
    Might not even need to go that high, but it would take some testing to find out for sure.
    I just went to 1 000 000 because that was what the challenge was about at the time.

    Have a good one [8D)

     
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  12. layer1

    layer1 Well-Known Member

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    It's tricky to replicate. I saw the same thing happening yesterday while afk mining but that was a first. I'm now in a flats biome trying to get techs to not spawn, but no luck. I even put my mobile tech up on jacks in case the constant bouncing of Venture wheels was enough movement to trigger spawning.

     
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  13. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    Hmm might be biome specific because I did my testing in the flats and I can go an unlimited amount of time without having any spawns near me.

     
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  14. layer1

    layer1 Well-Known Member

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    I finally was able to replicate it on flats. It only started just as daybreak hit (when solar panels start gathering sunlight) so it might be related to the time of day in game.

    None of these actions resulted in new spawns:

    * Spawning a snapshot
    * Planting an anchored AI module
    * Moving a tech using build mode
    * Firing weapons (even though the tech moved a tiny bit)
    * Switching between the mobile and anchored tech that were near each other
    * Quitting to the main menu, then continuing the campaign
    * Quitting to desktop and loading the save

    Switching to the tech visible in the distance of the pic below did result in new spawns centered around that tech. I repeated that twice and the second tech spawned within aggro range (and that tech has no weps) so I don't dare switch back to it. Once I switched back to the tech in the foreground the spawns stopped again. [edit] Eventually another tech did spawn (reloading the save after this = no spawns again.)

    screen84.jpg

    [edit 2] More:

    * Creating a new tech with a cab and switching to it = spawns
    * Adding to an existing tech = no spawns (meaning, I could test some of ZG's suggestions)
    * Rotating an anchored tech = no spawns (even though it nudged the mobile tech out of the way)
    * Spinning around in the mobile tech = no spawns
    * Driving around in the mobile tech, staying very close to its original spot = no spawns
    * Driving past the limit of the innermost circle on the map (the faint circle) = no spawns - screen86.jpg shows how far away I moved from the original point
    * Driving past the innermost bold circle (100m?) resulted in spawns, so I think that's the limit

    [edit 3] Time doesn't matter. If you can kill everything in sight while remaining within 100m the spawns will stop.

     

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    #14 layer1, Jun 24, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2018
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  15. Lord Zarnox

    Lord Zarnox Founder of the IFTTES

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    You should be able to see the impact location target before an enemy lands. It isn't always very visible, due to having thin lines, but it includes a circle in the center, with four straight lines extending outward in cardinal directions (maybe, all at right angles at least).

     
  16. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    I've just tested this in my latest campaign save and I've had it work day and night. But I concur with all your other observations about what conditions do and don't break the spawn pause.:D:cool:

    To clarify:

    • Killing an enemy doesn't refresh spawning, either (provided you don't break the other conditions). So you can be left stuck with just 1, 2, or 3 enemies too, I think.

    • Switching to a new tech and back immediately after still breaks the spawn drought (don't have to continue controlling this new tech). I'm wondering if you can have 2 techs that both have this condition in place, so that switching between them wouldn't refresh it...? (e.g. they both have venture missiles and clear the enemies out around them, in turn, without going anywhere.)

    I don't believe so. Spawn system is simple and ignores biomes. And I've tested with my tech in Salt flats and Desert.
    My highlighting - I'm not sure about this condition. If you have to move over 100m anyway, then you'd naturally move away from any anchored tech you were next to anyway. To test/confirm what you're saying, you'd have to move 200 meters, say, along a row of anchored techs and still have the spawn block in place.


    But anyway, good call @Redlegdaddy - vindicated. And good job @layer1 with the careful testing. I've got a couple more observations to note too, which I think are worth making a new bug thread for (and I'm going to do a bit more testing, with this new info)...

     
    #16 ZeroGravitas, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2018
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  17. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    What (else) we know:

    High certainty: Enemies always spawn between 200-300m from your controlled tech. (I was wrong earlier in saying over 300.) [Edit 2018-06-27: Actually, sometimes they will spawn in over 300m away, in my test setup where all the space closer in has been blocked by my turrets.]

    High certainty: Enemies only spawn in front of your tech (~180 degree arc). Camera can be facing any direction. This might not be 100%, with me seeing some possibly just beyond this angle. But seems so significant as to indicate a strong biasing factor, at the least. Often two land right next to each other directly ahead. So maybe a normal distribution function centred on dead ahead...?

    [Edit 2018-06-28: it looks like about 20% spawn behind you, with a seemingly smooth peak in concentration in front. See radar snapshot below.]

    High Certainty: there is a 100m exclusion radius around every friendly tech (anchored or not?). As shown previously, in this thread about R&D spawning (back when you could buy techs):
    But this was not holding, with techs spawning on bases, as I showed on video in this thread last year, where Adriano said:

    Hypothesis: Spawn events that are blocked by the 100m exclusion radius around a friendly tech are lost. So if 4 spawns are blocked like this, no more will happen until drought conditions are broken. Even if the blocking friendly techs are removed.

    Fairly sure: Spawn rate is ~1 every 10 40 seconds? (Would need to plot the arrival times of a lot of techs to get a good idea...)

    [Edit 2018-06-28: I got about 48 spawns in 30 minutes, using the unlimited spawns at high altitude trick. So about 1 every 37.5 seconds. The first one *might* be faster.
    [​IMG] ]


    Hypothesis: Flat spawn rate until 4 enemy techs exist and then no more? (Or does it scale down as more exist?)

    High Certainty: after destroying any of 4 spawned techs, player tech must move over 100m to re-initialise enemy spawning. Or switch techs. This might have to be to a new tech or one beyond 100m.


    Behaviour rules:

    Sure: Enemies are frozen beyond 200, unless you are looking in the opposite direction, whereupon they come back to life and might kill each other, for example.

    High certainty: Enemies spontaneously agro within 150m.

    Wild speculation: Are enemies the fleeing type if looking away when they spawn...?


    Despawning rules:

    High certainty: Enemies beyond 450m are forcibly de-spawned, even if looking right at them (day or night, I think).

    Unknown: Can despawns happen closer while looking away?

    ► ...

     
    #17 ZeroGravitas, Jun 25, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2018
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  18. Lost Ninja

    Lost Ninja Well-Known Member

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    Hence why I think it might be a bug, don't see impact marker, just tech pops down next to me. I'm also fairly certain I've had Invaders with no notification as well (which is more scary...) :D

     
  19. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    With my grinder I have never had a single invasion. I wonder if invasions are tied to not being near a base?

     
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  20. layer1

    layer1 Well-Known Member

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    Yep. Anything anchored stops nearby invasions for some distance around the anchor point.

     
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