Weapon suggestion:Artillery

Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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So artillery weapon would be a like a battle ship artillery cannon which would have extremely long range extremely high damage and explosion radius but a very very slow fire rate. TBH i thought the type 45 naval cannon was gonna be this before it was realised and what a dissapointment it was atleast for me that is but any way artillery is something iv wanted in the game for years now ever since hawkeye came out. the artillery would be either a huge single barrel or a smaller 2 or 3 battle turret (because a static arillery would be practically unusable) and common who wouldnt want a gigantic artillery which would annihilate enemies nearly out of your vision so please do comment or like if you would like to see this in the game because i shure as hell would.
 
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Wassaup

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Apr 28, 2019
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On principle, I would love to have true artillery guns in TT. However, there are two major hurdles in the way of such weapons being implemented:
The first is the range. Even now, there're quite a few weapons in the game that can shoot well beyond the lock-on range. So for these to work, this limit needs to be removed. As in, if you can see it, you can target it.
The second, way bigger problem is the explosive damage. It penetrates shields and blocks. With a large blast-radius, even a relatively weak artillery shell would one-shot any tech, as the fragile cabs would die instantly (unless we're talking gigantic, near build-limit sized monstrosities). So unless explosive damage is completely over hauled, where layers of blocks actually offer protection from this damage, these weapons would utterly destroy the already dodgy balance.
 
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Darvin

Commander-in-chief of Carrier Strike Group NOVA-01
Jun 13, 2020
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ah yes, i have similar idea, when the official modding tool supports weapons and radar blocks, my plan is to first create an extended radar, could be triple or double the range of vanilla radar, then make the artillery pieces like these for example

gallery-1500490573-2777899.jpg 800px-Kings_of_battle_keep_the_fire;_1-9_FA_fires_its_last_rounds_140910-A-CW513-046.jpg

so we can bombard enemy techs from waaaay out of their range, but they will be unusable in close combat. the base dmg and radius will match hawkeye battleship cannon, just longer range, but you cant fire it point blank, it'll miss like a mortar. the radar of course will be a lot bigger and heavier than vanilla radar, i'm thinking 3x3x3 dimension with 30 mass
 

Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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On principle, I would love to have true artillery guns in TT. However, there are two major hurdles in the way of such weapons being implemented:
The first is the range. Even now, there're quite a few weapons in the game that can shoot well beyond the lock-on range. So for these to work, this limit needs to be removed. As in, if you can see it, you can target it.
The second, way bigger problem is the explosive damage. It penetrates shields and blocks. With a large blast-radius, even a relatively weak artillery shell would one-shot any tech, as the fragile cabs would die instantly (unless we're talking gigantic, near build-limit sized monstrosities). So unless explosive damage is completely over hauled, where layers of blocks actually offer protection from this damage, these weapons would utterly destroy the already dodgy balance.
the artillery weapon its self would be only medium to long range and probably the most expensive weapon in the game like 150-250 k. also it would be huge and very very heavy. also the artillery would be kinda inacurate around 5-7 degrees. or the other option would be kinda like the artillery in factorio where you manually aim it in this case somewhere on the radar and it would have an auto aim feature which would be alot. and i see the one shot kill on all the smaller enemies but by the time you would get this weapon you would have very big enemies and tbh late game the enemies are still kinda small and they should be bigger and better but anyway by then you will have 30+ cruise missiles and every other end game weapon but still its artillery who cares how expensive it would be or that it oneshotted enemies tho the explosion should be like even if it misses but hits close by it does damage.
 

Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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also lately the new weapons have been atleast for me extremely dissapointing the type 45 being a over hyped explosive bb gun which is nearly useless because its so big in the same space you could fit 14 avalanche launchers and destroy anything in seconds. and then the ballistic missle pod which lies because they arent actually ballistic because they imidiatly track the enemy they dont have a ballistic arc. tbh i would just like to see a new cool weapon that isnt something completely different than from what it says it is.
 

Wassaup

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Apr 28, 2019
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the artillery weapon its self would be only medium to long range and probably the most expensive weapon in the game like 150-250 k. also it would be huge and very very heavy...and i see the one shot kill on all the smaller enemies but by the time you would get this weapon you would have very big enemies and tbh late game the enemies are still kinda small and they should be bigger and better but anyway by then you will have 30+ cruise missiles and every other end game weapon but still its artillery who cares how expensive it would be or that it oneshotted enemies tho the explosion should be like even if it misses but hits close by it does damage.
:confused:...It seems to me, you don't actually want artillery gameplay, or even artillery weapons, but the insta-gib gun from Unreal Tournament. There actually was a short time in TT, when basically all explosive weapons were insta-kills:
Thankfully, this got patched, 'cuz nobody was having any fun. And this is why the weapon you're describing will never be in the game. At least, not with the current damage model.

also lately the new weapons have been atleast for me extremely dissapointing the type 45 being a over hyped explosive bb gun which is nearly useless because its so big in the same space you could fit 14 avalanche launchers and destroy anything in seconds. and then the ballistic missle pod which lies because they arent actually ballistic because they imidiatly track the enemy they dont have a ballistic arc. tbh i would just like to see a new cool weapon that isnt something completely different than from what it says it is.
Now this, I'm with you 100%. There are few players more frustrated with the performance of heavy weapons than me. But between affectionate tickle-fights and OHKOs, there has to be a happy a middle ground. The illusive balance.
 
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burger1113

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Jan 3, 2015
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I’d say Battleship Cannons serve the purpose quite well with careful design?
I’ve made a few techs like this
And they already destroy AIs way beyond detection range with ease, soooo..
An artillery weapon with sophisticated aiming system would destroy the balance for sure.
If they ai gets so improved as to attempt evasive maneuvers no matter how far shots come from or somethin, maybe it’s viable somewhat.
I’ve kinda given up on AI getting better tho. We still don’t even have pathing for avoiding trees/rocks.
 
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Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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:confused:...It seems to me, you don't actually want artillery gameplay, or even artillery weapons, but the insta-gib gun from Unreal Tournament. There actually was a short time in TT, when basically all explosive weapons were insta-kills:
Thankfully, this got patched, 'cuz nobody was having any fun. And this is why the weapon you're describing will never be in the game. At least, not with the current damage model.



Now this, I'm with you 100%. There are few players more frustrated with the performance of heavy weapons than me. But between affectionate tickle-fights and OHKOs, there has to be a happy a middle ground. The illusive balance.
i think you missunder stood me i dont actually want op af weapons that one shot enemies and i really do want artillery gameplay i want the extremely long range that artillery would have and the fact that is misses the enemy a fair bit not like half the time but maybe 30-40% of the time. and believe me i remember when explosive weapons were a game ender for every tech there was iv been playing the game iv been playing the game since late 2015 through 3 different accounts with nearly 1.5 k h on the game between all the accounts. and what i want is when you shoot of a full volley of artillery shells and when all 3(assuming its a triple barrel artillery and you have one of them on your tech) shells hit the enemy is missing half of its blocks(assuming the enemie has no shield or repair bubbles) and then you have to wait for 10 or so second so it can fire again now in my opinion that an artillery now while it sound extremely op think about it really it would fire quite slowely and fairly inacuratly but it would have high damage something like the bs cannon damage and a tad bit larger explosion or the same size explosion and a tad bit more damage instead of 7.5k it would have 9 k. but what i really dont want to happen again is a another type 45 where they promiss us this 1602670912580.png but we get an explosive bb gun which they say has high dps which in this game isnt really that important tho i would really like to know what you think an artillery gun would be. also i believe that the exposions in the game should be changed so the further from the center the less damage it does
 

Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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I’d say Battleship Cannons serve the purpose quite well with careful design?
I’ve made a few techs like this
And they already destroy the AIs way beyond detection range with ease, soooo..
An artillery weapon with sophisticated aiming system would destroy the balance for sure.
If they ai gets so improved as to attempt evasive maneuvers no matter how far shots come from or somethin, maybe it’s viable somewhat.
name any hawkeye grade 3 weapon that is balanced it dosent matter if its under powered or overpowered it still unbalanced so try name one
 

Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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the literal definition of artillery : large-calibre guns used in warfare on land.
or : Artillery is a class of heavy military ranged weapons built to launch munitions far beyond the range and power of infantry firearms. Early artillery development focused on the ability to breach defensive walls and fortifications during sieges, and led to heavy, fairly immobile siege engines.
 

burger1113

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Jan 3, 2015
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name any hawkeye grade 3 weapon that is balanced it dosent matter if its under powered or overpowered it still unbalanced so try name one
Dude, does how unbalanced the game is currently have anything to do with if we should have gamebreaking weapons added or not? Something being broken doesn't mean you should break it even further :(
And by definition of "artillery" you gave us, we have tons of artillery weapons in the game!
Looks just like the block we never use from gso.

Even the largest shields don't keep blocks from being damaged from many SD weapons.
We will just end up with one playstyle, sittin on top of a mountain and pretty much noob toobing AIs (I have fun doing that lol but doesn't mean the game should allow me to). And it would be fun when AI's can also do that, so the game becomes a constant watch for artillery strikes.
It could be viable IF the AI becomes so far improved that they sense attacks regardless of how far they are from the threat and attempt evasive maneuvers/retaliate, explosive weapons should never get any stronger. And shields and armor panels should be able to stop SD from going through them.
 
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Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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Dude, does how unbalanced the game is currently have anything to do with if we should have gamebreaking weapons added or not? Something being broken doesn't mean you should break it even further :(
And by definition of "artillery" you gave us, we have tons of artillery weapons in the game!
Looks just like the block we never use from gso.

Even the largest shields don't keep blocks from being damaged from many SD weapons.
We will just end up with one playstyle, sittin on top of a mountain and pretty much noob toobing AIs (I have fun doing that lol but doesn't mean the game should allow me to). And it would be fun when AI's can also do that, so the game becomes a constant watch for artillery strikes.
It could be viable IF the AI becomes so far improved that they sense attacks regardless of how far they are from the threat and attempt evasive maneuvers/retaliate, explosive weapons should never get any stronger. And shields and armor panels should be able to stop SD from going through them.
technically we dont have a single artillery weapon all of them have extremely short ranges well except for the bs cannon but thats with manual aiming and if we can be op why cant the enemy i personally want to always be in danger if an enemy might just artillery strike me. and the imbalance has nothing to do if we should have another imbalanced weapon in the game. and in what way would artillery be imbalanced it could be easy to avoid even for the current ai and the current ai would get too close and make the weapon unable to aim. also i do agree sitting on a hill and bombarding the enemy is quite fun. but common how could you not want true artillery in the game. i dont understand why some people are so hellbent on destroying some of the weapon ideas like artillery or true ballistic missiles not the BMB thats in the game now that just auto track imidiatly
 

Wassaup

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Apr 28, 2019
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I want artillery in TT, but by that I mean: a new, more tactical way to engage the enemies. I didn't pick the Hellfire idly, that's how I want an artillery tech to function (the camera shell could be the special feature for the RR cannon, while the cluster shell would be perfect for the VEN rapid-fire artillery). What I don't want, is to TT to turn into Divekick (first successful hit wins)! Even in games like Bushido Blade or Nidhogg, where you die in one hit, you can block and dodge attacks. We need counted play, for the game to be fun. A defense enthusiast should know this ;).

In short, I want to make SPMAs, but I don't want this:
Nuclear_artillery_test_Grable_Event_-_Part_of_Operation_Upshot-Knothole.jpg
 
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Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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I want artillery in TT, but by that I mean: a new, more tactical way to engage the enemies. I didn't pick the Hellfire idly, that's how I want an artillery tech to function (the camera shell could be the special feature for the RR cannon, while the cluster shell would be perfect for the VEN rapid-fire artillery). What I don't want, is to TT to turn into Divekick (first successful hit wins)! Even in games like Bushido Blade or Nidhogg, where you die in one hit, you can block and dodge attacks. We need counted play, for the game to be fun. A defense enthusiast should know this ;).

In short, I want to make SPMAs, but I don't want this:
View attachment 34965
as i said before i do believe the games combat should be reworked especially the explosions but also something other then shield and regeneration bubbles what could be great and fun is point defence it would only work against bigger shells and missiles so both you and the enemy could defende and manage cannon or missile spam and so that every mission in the game couldnt be done with a single cruiser missile and some range. also as i mentioned even with the artillery first hit wouldnt destroy the tech the artillery damage would be a bit better then the damage of the bs cannon but artillery couldnt be used in place of the bs cannon because of size weight and cost. also i imagane the artillery explosion kinda like this
 
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Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
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there used to be a great game called istrolid that had artillery it was only 2d but it had amazing defence and attack mechanics i remember there would be battles in like a 3v3 where both sides would have massive point defense rigs and rapid fire artillery and the games would last for hours just because it would take carefull planing just to break the enemies deffenses.
 

Kupcha

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Jan 30, 2020
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The capability is already in the game. As mentioned above, If you add in in a long range radar from mods, it can become ridiculously accurate from very far away.

But yeah, I know you're looking for a weapon actually made to do that job without manual adjustments. I'd have to agree that in the end, its part of a bigger issue with the overall balance of the game the way it is now. Its a tricky job to create a weapon that doesn't feel too powerful without being underwhelming, as even a few hits of anything explosive causes serious damage to even armored and shielded basic techs. And then there is the issue of how fast a projectile has to move so that it won't be easy to avoid by anything just slightly moving away, making such weapons basically only useful against stationary targets in the first place.

The operating range of the AI and the AI's behavior in general has long needed an overhaul for them to be viable as anything but fodder against late game weapons. If the game were balanced around player vs player, it might not be an issue, and maybe the game not originally being intended for multiplayer could shift eventually. As it stands right now a longer range weapon would just create more ways to cheese the AI, you basically have to play into their hands if you want a chance at losing.
 
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Warning220

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View attachment 34966
The capability is already in the game. As mentioned above, If you add in in a long range radar from mods, it can become ridiculously accurate from very far away.

But yeah, I know you're looking for a weapon actually made to do that job without manual adjustments. I'd have to agree that in the end, its part of a bigger issue with the overall balance of the game the way it is now. Its a tricky job to create a weapon that doesn't feel too powerful without being underwhelming, as even a few hits of anything explosive causes serious damage to even armored and shielded basic techs. And then there is the issue of how fast a projectile has to move so that it won't be easy to avoid by anything just slightly moving away, making such weapons basically only useful against stationary targets in the first place.

The operating range of the AI and the AI's behavior in general has long needed an overhaul for them to be viable as anything but fodder against late game weapons. If the game were balanced around player vs player, it might not be an issue, and maybe the game not originally being intended for multiplayer could shift eventually. As it stands right now a longer range weapon would just create more ways to cheese the AI, you basically have to play into their hands if you want a chance at losing.
yeah i know i have nearly 50 different tech that i use as artillery with the bs cannon
 
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Kupcha

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Jan 30, 2020
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As you said, there is also an issue of only being able to hit things within the limited field of view that the game will currently load, we can already make weapons that would technically hit things from many miles away, but you can't, because the game doesn't see them from that far :D

Point defenses are a good concept to explore, you might be aware there are already such weapons in modded blocks, but I've found their functionality to be mediocre, at best. Unfortunately, a lot of issues are again are just a result of the current limitations of the AI and the game itself. It just seems a lot more pieces need to fall into place before this can be explored much further beyond what we've already managed.
 
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