The problem with Venture

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Pink Kitty

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#43
Lastly you again state, despite the mountains of evidence to the contrary that has been placed in front of you, that Venture has no viable place in the game. Im not sure, but this seems to stem from a notion that each corporation MUST be capible of both direct mining and potent combat.
Nope. You don't get what i'm saying at all.

  1. What mountains of evidence? Some opinions have been stated. With nothing really to back them up. That's it.
  2. Every corp has a niche. Each niche is a spot where they shine: GC big mining techs. HE: war machines and nothing else. GSO: a bit of everything, and kind sucky. Venture: zooming around and being fragile.
  3. The problem is that Venture's niche has no real reason to exist as part of game progression. Sure it's fun, but it does very little for the game. Because currently, you harvest, build or fight. They suck at harvesting, and they mostly suck at fighting. Building is non-denominational. Even using non-pure techs, all the Venture strengths make for a rubbish combat unit, save for small ones. And if you run into a big enemy, you're stuffed.
  4. So until the game changes significantly, to take Ventures strength into account, Venture can't really contribute much to game progression.
  5. Generalised techs of a certain size are optimal in terms of time spent for one simple reason: the game is undifferentiated. There is no separation between mining and combat. You are likely to be surprised while mining and have to fight, and when you are going hunting, you are likely to find cool salvage or resources.
  6. Building a specialised tech is fine, but it means you either have to run home and get the right tech for what you tripped over, a hurried rebuild in the field (if that's even possible) or missing out on resources.
  7. I'm not saying you can't or mustn't, but it's less efficient. If it's less efficient to do something, it is going to be discouraged. Especially when multiplayer becomes a thing.
  8. Doc agreeing with you is not a point in your favour. Unless they're a dev. To my knowledge, they aren't.
  9. No, i do not trust your assertions.
 

Mindl3ss

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#44
1 Go read my posts again. from the beginning. iv cited in game examples of how these issues are not something that everyone has, just you, maybe others, but not everyone. If you dont count what actually happens in game as evidence then theres no pleasing you.
2 yeah. the game is supposed to be that way, and you seem to be suggesting that it change.
3-6 These are also opinions, with not a great deal of evidence attached to them. completely overcomable by means of the afformentioned mountain of evidence iv put in front of you.
7 this seems more like you dont understand how to use Venture parts to their potential, rather than they lack said potential.
8 Never said it was. it just means that i agree with his points as well, so i dont have any arguement to it.
9 Thats your perogitive.

You are coming dangerously close to calling me a liar in that last post. keep it up. i'll just leave and bring this up somewhere where im not going to have the same statement crammed down my throat again and again no matter what i present to the contrary. i dont want a beef with you but you seem to think you can incite it out of me. quite frankly i dont appreciate the attempt. especially when we had started to get back on track.
 

Rockfarmer

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#45
Ok, I think I'll leave this reply and wait for what the devs have to say.
  • I think all the factions should have their own strengths and weaknesses as in rock-papper-scissors.
  • I think all factions should be different.
  • I would much rather have more "pro-Venture" gamecontent than make drastic changes to Venture.
  • I would personally like to see Venture with a viable high-tech "surgical" combat style.
GSO = streetbrawler
GeoCorp = Sumo wrestler
Hawkeye = Navy Seal
Venture = Sci-fi Ninja
 

Potato

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#46
Based on what I can read here and from what the current game is right now, I have some comments.

As of 0.7.1.2 , the game focuses on combat and harvesting, which isn't a bad thing. (Since the devs are streamlining the crafting/scrapping processes at the moment)

Which leaves Venture as if left out in the dirt. There's no point to building a fast buggy if the game (as of now) wants players to build big and build tough to dominate the game.

I do have some suggestions to add which may have been already stated earlier:
  • A Scouting mission for Venture. Build the fastest thing ever and go to Point A to Point B before time runs out
  • Tweak some of the game's mechanics so nimbler Techs can defeat large techs (such as melee or EMP weapons against shields). By tweaking the game so everyone has a chance to fight, then everyone's fair game, and everyone has the option to build small or large.
  • Give Venture ALL the mobile base parts; makes them more viable, even if it's just the components.

But that's just my two cents in the matter.
 

Mindl3ss

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#47
everyone is in agreement that we need scouting missions. its about the one thing me and kitty see eye to eye on here.

While i dont beleive venture has been left in the dirt, any solution that revolves around 'add parts' as opposed to 'modify existing parts' is going to have my support, so long as it doesnt continue to paralell Venture and HE.

actually i really like that idea. by giving Venture access to Mobile minning you would fix one of Kitty's problems with Venture. though i dont have that problem with them, i know others do. where i do have a problem that needs fixing is simply that mobile processing has been removed from the gameentirely (I am aware that this was only going to be temporary anyways). by re-introducing the smaller, mobile harvesting technologies as Venture products, you both expand Venture's viability into the black and white 'Harvesting and combat' Scenario, while maintaining Venture's monopoly on light and fast. this idea makes all parties happy, at least on one issue. Good job 'tater.
 
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Mindl3ss

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#49
and that got me thinking. So far we have only had access to two speeds of harvesting. Stationary and Mobile, but both work at the same rate, setup/tear down is really the only difference in time. Is it possible to harvest or process faster? conveyors that move things faster or refineries and delivery cannons that dont take quite so long to process their materials or process more materials at once.

this opens the door to a new idea as well, corporation specific harvesting proficiencies. For instance, Venture could lack the Mining capability or the ability to refine mineral elements, but be able to harvest wood and sap at twice the speed of anyone else. same with Geocorp, but reversed. Trees take you longer to process, but minerals process more quickly, or en mass. (Think like 3 bits at a time)
 

Dellamorte

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#50
and that got me thinking. So far we have only had access to two speeds of harvesting. Stationary and Mobile, but both work at the same rate, setup/tear down is really the only difference in time. Is it possible to harvest or process faster? conveyors that move things faster or refineries and delivery cannons that dont take quite so long to process their materials or process more materials at once.

this opens the door to a new idea as well, corporation specific harvesting proficiencies. For instance, Venture could lack the Mining capability or the ability to refine mineral elements, but be able to harvest wood and sap at twice the speed of anyone else. same with Geocorp, but reversed. Trees take you longer to process, but minerals process more quickly, or en mass. (Think like 3 bits at a time)
I like this idea and I think that this is along the lines of what the devs have planned for Venture.
 

Jamie

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#52
Small fast scouts and aircraft are useless for anything except fun.
...in a video game. Fun is the aim. Success!
I'm criticising Venture for what they are, not what they could be.
We don't know where they're going, so that makes it hard to criticise that.
But we do know where they are.
So let's wait and see where the game goes and what place Venture has in that. We have racing missions and the need to travel further afield for rarer resource spawns on the horizon - which will give Venture more of a purpose.
  • I think all the factions should have their own strengths and weaknesses as in rock-papper-scissors.
  • I think all factions should be different.
Yes. This.
I would much rather have more "pro-Venture" gamecontent than make drastic changes to Venture.
Especially this.

As for the drama here - it's a shame that the first post I read when I come back in the new year had to be this one, but we'll be messaging the participants accordingly. Try to keep the discussion positive please people. You can all suggest that GeoCorp should be purple instead of yellow for all we care, so long as the discussion is healthy and constructive.
 
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zanzistar

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#53
Hey All,

As always, thanks for all your feedback.

Although I know @Pink Kitty said, it's not about the future, it's about now. That's a good place to look at how we raise Venture's place within the game.

As @Jamie said, race missions are coming, as will "trick / ramp / gap / hoop" missions too, both of which will heavily favour Venture (and likely yield Venute XP).

We are also in the process of working out new rarity values for resources (including another rework of the recipe table to feed into that). Some resource types will become much rarer, meaning scouting will be more in demand again.

We've also got plans around encouraging players to utilise a variety of different Techs rather than building one big one. Once players can switch between Techs with ease (possibly storing other Techs in their SCU) then we expect some players will want to explore in faster / lighter Techs and then switch to other specialised Techs for different tasks when they arrive (Harvesting, fighting, bases etc.).

As some have mentioned, flight is coming. Venture will stand out there as the fastest and lightest flying blocks. Some have argued that Hawkeye eclipse them, but Hawkeye have less fine control as their flying blocks are geared to be used by heavier / larger flying Techs.

All that said, Venture do have a relatively smaller selection of blocks at the moment. Hopefully we'll get some time to add a few more blocks for them, a few more wheels and weapons especially.

We may also need to increase the HP of some venture blocks too as they are a little on the weak side.

Cheers,
Kris
 

ArmchairGravy

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#55
I have not built a Venture tech or any aircraft since the dispensers went away. The new mission and crafting systems make for a more base-centric approach. I would like to see Venture and GeoCorp swapped in their appearance in the mission tree (Venture starts at level 2, GeoCorp starts at 3) as well as have their chance to occur increase. I can't swing a cat without hitting three GeoCorp missions, but have to hunt high and low for Venture. This would give us access to the Venture blocks at a time during the game where exploration is of a higher priority than base building and resource gathering. By the time we hit the base building phase of the game we will have some Venture blocks and manufacturing available, and then use the GeoCorp stuff for the resource gathering phase.
 

zanzistar

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#56
I have not built a Venture tech or any aircraft since the dispensers went away. The new mission and crafting systems make for a more base-centric approach. I would like to see Venture and GeoCorp swapped in their appearance in the mission tree (Venture starts at level 2, GeoCorp starts at 3) as well as have their chance to occur increase. I can't swing a cat without hitting three GeoCorp missions, but have to hunt high and low for Venture. This would give us access to the Venture blocks at a time during the game where exploration is of a higher priority than base building and resource gathering. By the time we hit the base building phase of the game we will have some Venture blocks and manufacturing available, and then use the GeoCorp stuff for the resource gathering phase.
Yeah I know, I want more Ven Missions too. The Mission Board is coming soon. You'll be able to select which missions to take from trading stations and so you'll have an easier time of finding Venture missions (and Hawkeye ones too).

Swapping the appearance order of Ven and GC would be a bigger change. We'd have to see with that one...
 
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Pink Kitty

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#57
I have not built a Venture tech or any aircraft since the dispensers went away. The new mission and crafting systems make for a more base-centric approach. I would like to see Venture and GeoCorp swapped in their appearance in the mission tree (Venture starts at level 2, GeoCorp starts at 3) as well as have their chance to occur increase. I can't swing a cat without hitting three GeoCorp missions, but have to hunt high and low for Venture. This would give us access to the Venture blocks at a time during the game where exploration is of a higher priority than base building and resource gathering. By the time we hit the base building phase of the game we will have some Venture blocks and manufacturing available, and then use the GeoCorp stuff for the resource gathering phase.
Agreed. Venture focuses on small techs, and zooming around. Which is something that is more useful in the early stages.
Large techs come later, and that's a GeoCorp thing.
 

Mindl3ss

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#58
Im not sure how well big floating rings or ramps would get planetside, and im not sure how you would explain them being there, but make sure they have some kind of story to them, not just big man made things on a planet otherwise devoid of higher life. When floating mountains become a thing theres all kinds of possibilities for flight courses as well.

While i agree with and support the idea of encouraging smaller purpose built techs, be careful not to discourage the big mobile base idea. This is a sandbox game and there is no 'wrong' playstyle. while im certain some are better than others, everybodys plan can be made to work with proper application even as the game stands now. (with the exception of swarms, as the AI for harvesting is still under construction, but that issue is being addressed and we're all just gonna have to be patient.)

Flight is already here... did you mean flying enemies? cause i'm psyched about that. interesting story. I actually had to deal with a 'flying' enemy yesterday. during an 'approach the crate' mission i found the crate right up against a big, flat topped rock formation (one of those beautiful landmarks you guys added). As the waves came down one enemy landed atop the Mesa and was raining death down on me. I had to back off to a safe distance and rethink what i was doing. initially i was going to try to get my one megaton cannon to fire up, but then i thought, wait a minute, this is the first time in game i've hit a situation where an aircraft was really the best choice. i didnt have the gyro yet, so it ended up being a bit challenging, but i built my Venture/Gso B-17 bomber frame and lined the wings with stud lasers. I taxied, took off, and after getting the hang of flying the big bird without Gyros, circled in for the kill. with target in sight, i pulled up and began raining down laser fire on the stranded enemy. It worked beautifully. Its shorter range ballistic weapondry could touch me and then boom. parts go everywhere. Missions success. flew down to my main tech (being guarded by turrets) and came in for a landing. for a first serious combat mission, i had a blast. the B-17 performed really well, despite the lack of gyros, and the mission went off without a hitch. it was a nice little taste of whats to come.

Also i gotta argue with you here. From my experience HE is better at precision control in the air than venture. Venture is geared to moving foreward through the air while HE is geared toward moving slowly or hovering. Venture = Planes, HE = Helicoptors. Either corp can make either type of bird, but they are definitely focused in their opposite directions. some finer control would be nice for venture, but im not sure how to implement it without stepping on HE's toes.

and please dont up venture's HP. Some of us prefer venture to be fragile.
 
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Pink Kitty

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#59
Another thing that would fit with Venture is some kind of mine dropper.

Like the big Cruise Missile, but a spiked ball you just dump out the back.
It bounces and rolls for a couple of seconds, and then explodes, or when it hits something.

It would allow you to do a hit-and-run, and also discourage pursuit.
Esp if it penetrates shields like missiles.
Also, it would make a good bomb.

@zanzistar @Jamie Waddaya think?