The Official TerraTech Naval Warfare Challenge - Discussion

Matt

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Feel free to use this thread to discuss The Official TerraTech Naval Warfare Challenge.

UPDATE: 30/06

In order for the knock-out tournament format to work a few entries have got byes to the next round. These were selected at random to make it as fair as possible. Here is the list of entries who automatically progress to Round 2:

gojirazilla
GK vec
garr890354839
Sebby
WhiteDwarf
DogeDroid
PleaseAcceptMe
Smail
paj329
Megalodon
Goose-San
Tytronic
ASP-Ian
piotrus08
Aardvark123
Pachu
GKJ
camper123asa
human_person2
Alia
VQ9
JesustChris
HiramMaxim
Galrex
Darkstar076
General Douglas
Bluetooth
tadashi0907

Also, you may have noticed we've had quite a few entries, so in the interest of keeping things ticking along nicely the first few rounds will be best-of-one, with the quarter-finals and semi-finals being best-of-3 and the Grand Final being a best-of-5.
 
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菲爾.傑克森

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Jun 14, 2020
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First, please specify the following rules:
1. How long can the shield be opened:
Because the number of vehicle shields is very large, the opening time may exceed ten minutes, which will seriously affect the schedule and the length of the live broadcast.
But if the shield is not opened, the ship will be very fragile
2. How to place the starting position:
Some vehicles are very powerful on the front, but weak on the sides and behind
Some are in all four directions, without restrictions
The results of my multiple tests with my friends are
Diagonal is the fairest choice
Because AI will rotate around the opponent at the beginning
Put it diagonally, it will attack both front and side
But please make sure how far away
This will make the design very different
3. Whether to prohibit anchoring:
The difference between the strength of an anchored vehicle and an unanchored vehicle is very large
Because AI moves around in circles
If you anchor it, you only need to rotate in place, which has an absolute advantage
And if both vehicles are anchored
That game will become very ugly
4. What should I do if AI runs very far in the game?
I have played with my friends 20 times
There are often situations where the vehicle runs very far
Then just go around in place
This will delay the game for a very long time
At the same time, it may make the vehicle dead
But it’s not fair to bring the vehicle closer, because some weapons are not suitable for close range
Hope to test more
Just understand what I said
5. How to determine the victory or defeat if both sides break away from the front line?
Often there will be half of the fight and both sides will run away
Then, while being half disabled, there was no electricity
How to decide the victory or defeat in this special case?
Please clearly determine the judgment when it is impossible to distinguish the winner
Sometimes there is only one cockpit left, but he just can’t hit him
Then go all the way around XD
Sometimes a vehicle has no battery
One carries electricity,
And then left the front for a long time
As a result, the dead battery finally won
There are also cases of this reversal
Is it to terminate the game? Or to give him a chance to reverse?
 
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菲爾.傑克森

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Jun 14, 2020
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Finally, I want to ask the official to take care of the two biggest problems of the game
1. Poor connection quality
When the US connects with Taiwan
PING is up to more than 200
Then even if Taiwan is connected to Taiwan
Often get stuck because of too many game objects
Hope to do well in game optimization
Because my friends and I often play large vehicle PVP
Used to be smooth
Now often stuck
There are often error reports
2. Since adding modules
More often there are errors reported
This resulted in a massive decrease in the game population
As long as there are new updates before, the game population will increase significantly
And this time it was a serious counter-effect
Not even old players can play
I hope the official will face this problem
This is serious
3. Because of the first two problems
As a result, all old players prefer single-player games
Multiplayer games are mostly newbies
There is no so-called technical exchange
Are very rough communication
Usually Japanese people play together
Americans play together
Taiwanese playing together
Few cross-border interactions
And the chance to play PVP
Because it will be LAG!!!
 
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sharmoni

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Oct 23, 2019
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Why is the GeoCorp MegaReactor Battery not currently available in Co-Op Creative Mode?

Will it be made available by the time of the contest or should I redesign my battleship?
 
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Matt

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First, please specify the following rules:
1. How long can the shield be opened:
All shield and repair bubbles will be open at the start of combat.
2. How to place the starting position:
Each Ship will start combat side-by-side.
3. Whether to prohibit anchoring:
Each Ship will start combat unanchored.
4. What should I do if AI runs very far in the game?
If this were to happen I will restart the battle.
5. How to determine the victory or defeat if both sides break away from the front line?
I will have to make a judgment call for these cases during the battle.
 

Matt

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Why is the GeoCorp MegaReactor Battery not currently available in Co-Op Creative Mode?

Will it be made available by the time of the contest or should I redesign my battleship?
We're aiming to have the MegaReactor available in Co-op in the next TT_Unstable which is due to release later this week :)
 

BenBacon

Founder Of Bacon, Inc
Jan 15, 2017
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All shield and repair bubbles will be open at the start of combat.
So they will all be opened instantly upon deployment? If not, some techs have many bubbles that need to deploy, which takes a long amount of time.
Each Shi will start combat side-by-side.
I think this is a bad decision. I agree that diagonally and slightly out of combat range would be the best starting position as it gives all techs a fair chance. If you start side by side, techs with strong side weapons will dominate. If you start diagonally, it will not give an advantage to techs with strong frontal or side weaponry.
If this were to happen I will restart the battle.
I have tested with some of the techs, and there are at least one which will constantly float upwards and back away at a rather fast rate. If a tech were to float upwards, how would the fight happen?
 
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Sebby

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Dec 18, 2019
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So they will all be opened instantly upon deployment? If not, some techs have many bubbles that need to deploy, which takes a long amount of time.
This is a co-op thing, when techs are spawned, their bubbles will have to start up entirely. This can lead to situations where you have to wait 15 minutes for all bubbles, and a secondary problem of draining power, which I am used to. It is a prominent feature that we simply just have to use patience for.

I think this is a bad decision. I agree that diagonally and slightly out of combat range would be the best starting position as it gives all techs a fair chance. If you start side by side, techs with strong side weapons will dominate. If you start diagonally, it will not give an advantage to techs with strong frontal or side weaponry.
There are some things we have to live with. Like how most people will just have a face of cannons forwards for an alpha strike, or others with broadside cannons. Since this is an AI fight, it is probably better that they start facing each other and let their natural pathing do the rest. It's painful, but it is the most fair since both ships get their first hit and then do as AI do, letting that be the larger factor. And plus, it's a best of 3.

I have tested with some of the techs, and there are at least one which will constantly float upwards and back away at a rather fast rate. If a tech were to float upwards, how would the fight happen?
There is a solid chance this may be a bug. I have seen it many times where techs will act as if they had a stabilizing computer despite not actually having one, which can seriously mess up hoverbugs, like watching ZG's Tron bike just lift up into the sky. This could also be a balancing issue from the creator, in which case only god knows what we really can do to prevent it.


Also, I have counted 40 ships, despite there only being 16 spots. I would like a bracket with a total of 64 spots, but that might be a lot of streams and dueling...
 
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菲爾.傑克森

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2020
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I would like to ask, because when the vehicle opens the shield
Will continue to consume electricity
Will it help us charge during the game?
If it is not full power, fight,
May not be fair
Trouble help full charge
 

菲爾.傑克森

Well-Known Member
Jun 14, 2020
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When there is a game
Will the flying altitude of the vehicle be unified?
Because someone finds that if they fly very high
No one else can beat
Then the weapon hits down
Sure to win
 
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YaYYeeT

Turning out ESS lore at 0.0282739 words per minute
Apr 27, 2020
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<redacted>
When there is a game
Will the flying altitude of the vehicle be unified?
Because someone finds that if they fly very high
No one else can beat
Then the weapon hits down
Sure to win
M8, if it's out of detection range, the AI won't fire.
 

Matt

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Will it help us charge during the game?
There won't be any assistance in charging during each battle. You have whatever is on your Ship.
Will the flying altitude of the vehicle be unified?
Somewhat unified. There is a fine line between floating and flying which I will take into account for each battle. If I consider a Tech to be flying then it will be disqualified.
 

BenBacon

Founder Of Bacon, Inc
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This is a co-op thing, when techs are spawned, their bubbles will have to start up entirely. This can lead to situations where you have to wait 15 minutes for all bubbles, and a secondary problem of draining power, which I am used to. It is a prominent feature that we simply just have to use patience for.
This is precisely the problem. Unless the devs wants to stream for 24 hours, they need to have all bubbles open upon or close to deployment. Keep in mind that each round will be a best of three, meaning waiting 5 minutes each round just to open the bubbles, with 2-3 rounds per match.
I would like to ask, because when the vehicle opens the shield
Will continue to consume electricity
Will it help us charge during the game?
If it is not full power, fight,
I think not giving any more power is part of the design challenge. Getting a good balance of firepower, mobility, while minimizing power consumption is key to this challenge.

Another couple of questions for Matt:
How will placings in the bracket be determined? Will there be a round where techs will be split into pools and given a seed in the bracket?
Do you plan to do this in one stream? There are many submissions and this could take much longer than the average TT stream
 
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Matt

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How will placings in the bracket be determined? Will there be a round where techs will be split into pools and given a seed in the bracket?
Yes. It will need to be done over a few streams. My initial thought was to have Ships of similar value fight each other in the early rounds. So ships of higher value have a higher seeding. How does that sound?
This is precisely the problem. Unless the devs wants to stream for 24 hours, they need to have all bubbles open upon or close to deployment. Keep in mind that each round will be a best of three, meaning waiting 5 minutes each round just to open the bubbles, with 2-3 rounds per match.
I was going to load in each Tech, fully charge them and wait until all bubbles/shields are open then save the game ready to be loaded at the start of each battle. That should work, right?
 

Star

Member
Jun 18, 2020
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I have a question
Because the hover power controller
Our tech may have different hover height
Cause the "sea level" have mysterious fault
will you reset the hover height before the battle start?
 

AlexAtheos

Well-Known Member
May 4, 2020
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all of the fighting will be done in the latest unstable ver. (the one from yesterday), right?

what about RR blocks? they are available in the coop creative inventory, but not everyone has access to those, so will they be allowed?
 
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RC-3197

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Jan 5, 2018
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Yes. It will need to be done over a few streams. My initial thought was to have Ships of similar value fight each other in the early rounds. So ships of higher value have a higher seeding. How does that sound?
I personally don't think this is the best approach to bracket placing. If we did this, wouldn't it guarantee the left half of the bracket is occupied by high cost techs while the right half is occupied by low cost techs? Wouldn't that guarantee a low cost tech would reach 2nd place (because it would instantly lose to the tech from the higher cost bracket) instead of the overall second best tech? The only way around this issue with this seeding style is if 3rd and 4th place fight each other and then the winner fights 2nd place to determine the true 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place tech. Because of these issues I'd prefer either completely randomized or alphabetical seeding instead of cost seeding.

Also I'd like some clarification, are blocks that are available in COOP creative in the unstable version of terratech available for the challenge (such as the geocorp megareactor and Hawkeye BMB)? Or are blocks available for the challenge only if they are usable in COOP creative in the latest stable version?

Edit:
I'd also like to know the legal limit on altitudes as there are some techs that hover significantly higher than others.
 
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Matt

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I personally don't think this is the best approach to bracket placing. If we did this, wouldn't it guarantee the left half of the bracket is occupied by high cost techs while the right half is occupied by low cost techs? Wouldn't that guarantee a low cost tech would reach 2nd place (because it would instantly lose to the tech from the higher cost bracket) instead of the overall second best tech? The only way around this issue with this seeding style is if 3rd and 4th place fight each other and then the winner fights 2nd place to determine the true 2nd, 3rd, and 4th place tech. Because of these issues I'd prefer either completely randomized or alphabetical seeding instead of cost seeding.
Ah yes, this is a good point. The fairest way would be to have random seeding. Once the submissions are closed and we have a clearer idea of how many entires we have I can then layout how the tournament will work.
Also I'd like some clarification, are blocks that are available in COOP creative in the unstable version of terratech available for the challenge (such as the geocorp megareactor and Hawkeye BMB)? Or are blocks available for the challenge only if they are usable in COOP creative in the latest stable version?
The next Stable Update should be released by the time we start the battles so any Ships that use the new blocks (currently in TT_Unstable) are allowed.
I'd also like to know the legal limit on altitudes as there are some techs that hover significantly higher than others.
I'm not that keen on having a legal limit as this can be tricky to measure accurately for each Ship so I will have to judge each one individually. Unless you can think of a better way of doing it?
 

Mindl3ss

Mindless Dominion Fleet Admiral
Nov 5, 2015
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Okay, @Matt A comment, a question, and then a few bits of advice for my competition.

First off, When you open all the bubbles, make sure the ships are still charging as Bubbles fire up, so you dont waste half your charge while waiting. my entry has a significant compliment of Bubbles and honestly not enough batteries as it is. if i am draining power as i wait for bubbles to activate im prolly dead in the water, as is every other bubble heavy entry.

Second, Are the new HE Missile pods going to be Co-Op friendly? i think thats the only block in question on my entry. (Awesome block BTW, my new favorite Missile.) OH, and i can use the Bomber command cab, right? i would just check, but iv been having a crash happen whenever i try to go into co op. i beleive that crash is Mod related, and i dont really play multi-player at the moment, so not worth uninstalling my mods to find out.

And for the Competition. Im seeing a lot of entries that are priced significantly lower than the 10 mil cap. Why? you guys realise that some of us are actually treating this as a serious competition. its not that i have a problem being handed victories, but it just seems to me a waste of time to enter something that wont hold a candle to the serious entries. I saw Legionite's entry is about 8 Mil and while that ship does look formidable i wonder if the 2 Mil difference is... risky. Not to single you out Leg, just that your ship is right on the edge of being significantly underpriced, so it made a good example. I wonder if even your building prowess is enough to offset that large of a deficit. And a much bigger issue there are entries less than half of the available budget. Im not trying to discredit anyone's building ability, but there is no way 4 Mil gunboat is taking out a 10 Mil Destroyer in single combat... Im not saying people cant or shouldnt enter techs like those, just... doesnt make any sense to me. this is a gladitorial compitition, not a show and tell. we have ComCore for that stuff. (Speaking of witch, To the Devs: You should do a comcore with all the entries. Just a load in, pan around, flight test, and fire test, just to give all these awesome builds a moment. for many of the matchups, combat will be resolved in seconds and some of the smaller vessels might not get their 30 seconds of fame. just food for thought)

I guess what im saying is that im of the perspective of: If you dont intend to beat me, Dont stand in my way. The big kids are playing with big toys. But thats just my perspective. By all means, keep submitting ships that will die to a single salvo. just makin my path easier...

Anyways, that's my evaluation of the playing feild. Just for some fun, some pics, other than my own. Despite my previous assessment, I beleive @Legionite is my current favorite to win, despite the 2 Mil price deficite. His entry seems to be the one that has prepared for the most contingencies. Though some of it's capibilities are still unknown to me, like it's speed, accelleration, and turning radius. those are very important details, as outrunning/outmaneuvering missiles and cannon trajectories are going to be deciding factors in every machup. that said, The amount of Armour used makes me think it can survive enough missile fire to make it deep into combat. though if it's slow as a rock, it could just as easilly be a sitting target. who knows.

Just because they impressed me, i'd like to make some mentions of close seconds. @Yoozhername (Scjohng) Entry has me worried. Techs tend to circle eachother on AI control, and his ship packs a terrifying number of Broadside Cannons. I hope my Heavily armored hull is enough. Hope, not know. I think it's important that you know that your build gives me doubts about my own. i'v built a lot of these.

And a second Honorable Mention for who I think has a decent chance of making the finals is @Falchoin His entries combination of Heavy Armour and Liberal application of Cruise Missiles ought to give him a good chance of making it late into the tournament. Also the placement of the side mount ion drives lead me to beleive it will be quite maneuverable.

And a third Mention, not necessarily as a favorite to win, but definitely the 'Best in Show' so far is in my opinion, @SugaHappy Entry. I love the sloping angle of the bow, and the color scheme just works perfectly. Really, Suga, this is a thing of beauty. Deserves special mention, and im giving that nod.

And one final mention, i thought id pick my favorite from the ones that wont win. basically the tiny ones, that are only a fraction of the alloted budget. And That has to be @mozuo Kintoki. I just love everything about this little PT boat. it actually looks like it would hold it's own against larger ships than it's self, and Yes it does look like a potato. I love it.