SCU storage overhaul

Would you like to see it in-game?

  • Yes!

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Yes,but with some adjustments...

    Votes: 4 40.0%
  • No!

    Votes: 5 50.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Sokolov

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#1
IMHO, SCU units are too OP as you can place them anywhere, store endless amount of blocks in them and so on.
So I would suggest a total SCU storage overhaul.

It will be based on a new measurement unit - Blocks-of-Space(BoS), with 1 GSO One block taking exactly one, Geocorp Basic block takes 8, GeoCorp "The Big One" taking 32 and so on. Resource block could possibly require more than their size though.
The BoS could be obtained in several ways:
1)Some BoS are given to player as a prospector, and you get more by upgrading your licenses.
2)Some can be bought forever for BB-but not so much.
3)Some could be rented for BB.
4)Some can be added by crafting and placing(and possibly powering up) new special blocks - Quantum Storage Cells. They can come in a variety of sizes and crafting costs.
If a rent expires or a Quantum Storage Cell is destroyed AND the BoS of blocks kept in SCU exceeds the limit, there are 3 possible outcomes:
1) A player loses all blocks of the lowest value which were kept in the rented BoS.
2)All blocks put last in those BoS will become temporarily unavaliable-until you rent the space again-or obtain the nessesary BoS amount
3)All blocks put last in those BoS will pour out of the SCU.
Some other ideas(some may have been proposed, some have not)
1)Paint and beam blocks only in SCU range.
2)Make an SCU explode like a bomb when destroyed while powering up
 
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Lost Ninja

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#2
When I first played TT there was no storage, you ended up with stacks of blocks laying around in the expectation of using them for your next project. If you remove the functionality of the SCU that's what the game would go back to. I'd love to see a limit on it's capacity, and have the ability to upgrade it, but I'd want the basic capacity be enough for all but the most hardcore players. Because otherwise there really isn't much point in having one. Building other blocks to expand the structure would be fine if the game was a Minecraft style game were you are pretty much always going to have at least one stationary base, whereas especially when you'd need the huge storage SCU in the end-game you can be far more mobile, consequently either leaving your storage blocks behind in an un-loaded "tile" where they will do nothing if they become overloaded or underfunded. Or carry them with you with the risk of losing everything if they die.

The other thing is if the SCU is too OP, what does making it smaller do to address that? The OPness is the ease of use, not having to build a stack of blocks just letting them be sucked up. So to actually address the OPness you're rally looking at making them difficult to place, have long charge times, be weak enough for enemies to one shot, or maybe be very slow to pick blocks up... all of which have been done and to be honest annoy rather than make less OP.
 

Sokolov

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#3
When I first played TT there was no storage, you ended up with stacks of blocks laying around in the expectation of using them for your next project. If you remove the functionality of the SCU that's what the game would go back to. I'd love to see a limit on it's capacity, and have the ability to upgrade it, but I'd want the basic capacity be enough for all but the most hardcore players. Because otherwise there really isn't much point in having one. Building other blocks to expand the structure would be fine if the game was a Minecraft style game were you are pretty much always going to have at least one stationary base, whereas especially when you'd need the huge storage SCU in the end-game you can be far more mobile, consequently either leaving your storage blocks behind in an un-loaded "tile" where they will do nothing if they become overloaded or underfunded. Or carry them with you with the risk of losing everything if they die.

The other thing is if the SCU is too OP, what does making it smaller do to address that? The OPness is the ease of use, not having to build a stack of blocks just letting them be sucked up. So to actually address the OPness you're rally looking at making them difficult to place, have long charge times, be weak enough for enemies to one shot, or maybe be very slow to pick blocks up... all of which have been done and to be honest annoy rather than make less OP.
I understand your concerns, and I may have just a solution for this - making it save its functionality AND making it a little more balanced.
Let an SCU be a multi-block structure - like in minecraft, which needs some power. For example it can look like so:
XSXSX
XSCSX
XSXSX
One layered multiblock structure, where S - structural block, X- some kind of charging laser and C - core. SCU core can not be stored in an SCU(or at least can not be painted outside of an another SCU range). All blocks could have the dimensions of 1x1x2(height), while the core is 1x1x1, so you can have it on your tech at all times. In return , buff its sucking speed and health. Charging speed should remain the same.
As of Faction SCUs - have no ideas right now.
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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#4
IMHO, SCU units are too OP as you can plase them anywhere, store endless amount of blocks in them and so on.
So I would suggest a total SCU storage overhaul.

It will be based on a new measurement unit - Blocks-of-Space(BoS), with 1 GSO One block taking exactly one, Geocorp Basic block takes 8, GeoCorp "The Big One" taking 32 and so on. Resource block could possibly require more than their size though.
The BoS could be obtained in several ways:
1)Some BoS are given to player as a prospector, and you get more by upgrading your licenses.
2)Some can be bought forever for BB-but not so much.
3)Some could be rented for BB.
4)Some can be added by crafting and placing(and possibly powering up) new special blocks - Quantum Storage Cells. They can come in a variety of sizes and crafting costs.
If a rent expires or a Quantum Storage Cell is destroyed AND the BoS of blocks kept in SCU exceeds the limit, there are 3 possible outcomes:
1) A player loses all blocks of the lowest value which were kept in the rented BoS.
2)All blocks put last in those BoS will become temporarily unavaliable-until you rent the space again-or obtain the nessesary BoS amount
3)All blocks put last in those BoS will pour out of the SCU.
Some other ideas(some may have been proposed, some have not)
1)Paint and beam blocks only in SCU range.
2)Make an SCU explode like a bomb when destroyed while powering up
SCU is perfect if you do not play with miniature techs. I see nothing OP for it beside mobility. So if devs want to do something about it they just have to make it consume power and have loooong powering up time, so there is BIG difference between stationary and mobile SCU. Everything else is just perfect.
BTW place some image as your avatar, it is kind of awkward to listen to talk to that blue thing... kind like talking to somebody who is not there :)
 
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Lost Ninja

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#5
I understand your concerns, and I may have just a solution for this - making it save its functionality AND making it a little more balanced.
Let an SCU be a multi-block structure - like in minecraft, which needs some power. For example it can look like so:
XSXSX
XSCSX
XSXSX
One layered multiblock structure, where S - structural block, X- some kind of charging laser and C - core. SCU core can not be stored in an SCU(or at least can not be painted outside of an another SCU range). All blocks could have the dimensions of 1x1x2(height), while the core is 1x1x1, so you can have it on your tech at all times. In return , buff its sucking speed and health. Charging speed should remain the same.
As of Faction SCUs - have no ideas right now.
I don't think that that addresses my issues at all. If the SCU is OP - I don't really think that it is - it needs to be made harder to use to reduce that OPness. Making it harder to build or god forbid making it into a multi-block (which wouldn't work not playing Minecraft here), wouldn't be that solution. Plus the real issue isn't the SCU, because that is merely a method to access the Inventory, which you can use/have without having an SCU at all.

IMO it would be a bad step to take to make the SCU worse or to make the inventory a chore to use. Not unless the whole game was intended to be some sort of HC survival game, which as it stands it isn't.
 

Sokolov

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#6
I don't think that that addresses my issues at all. If the SCU is OP - I don't really think that it is - it needs to be made harder to use to reduce that OPness. Making it harder to build or god forbid making it into a multi-block (which wouldn't work not playing Minecraft here), wouldn't be that solution. Plus the real issue isn't the SCU, because that is merely a method to access the Inventory, which you can use/have without having an SCU at all.

IMO it would be a bad step to take to make the SCU worse or to make the inventory a chore to use. Not unless the whole game was intended to be some sort of HC survival game, which as it stands it isn't.
I think I got your point here... You are quite right - probably making SCU just harder to use would not be solution - just an annoying limitation. But I really dislike the battle concept after you get an SCU (kill enemy - place an SCU - suck in the trophies - beam your SCU in an inventory - repeat). I feel like the whole concept needs to be reworked - but I am out of ideas(
 

Lost Ninja

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#7
With an addition of game difficulty this could be managed, especially if there was a "custom" difficulty option.

Custom option could have the ability to reduce pickup range, pickup speed, charge speed &/or disable SCUs.

These are more general options I've though of since my last replay and aren't intended as difficulty settings:
  • Make the SCU only work when connected to a terminal/fab (or only with unused blocks) would be no good for looting, but still enable easy building.
  • Make the SCU only store resources/resource blocks (I'd like this anyway).
But I can't think of a useful/fun mechanic to separate the SCU and Inventory.
 
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AstraTheDragon

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#8
But I can't think of a useful/fun mechanic to separate the SCU and Inventory.
If SCUs packed blocks into storage blocks, it could be quite fun to build vans and carrier copters to transport around your compressed stuff. The problem would be... What happens if a full storage block gets absorbed by an SCU? :terrathonk:
 
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Sokolov

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#9
If SCUs packed blocks into storage blocks, it could be quite fun to build vans and carrier copters to transport around your compressed stuff. The problem would be... What happens if a full storage block gets absorbed by an SCU? :terrathonk:
Interesting idea! Would like to see in-game - and one of the solutions(IMHO). What happens - probably just an explosion - a matter of balance. Turn an SCU into QCD(Quantum Compactor Device) - definetly like it!
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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#10

Nate

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#11
Do not have techs pop apart when they lose all of their cabs. A battle win produces a chunk of metal sitting there. You can't pull parts off of it. Any enemy parts you shot got destroyed. Clumps of parts that were shot off stay clumps.

What fun is this? Well you get to grind up that smoking chunk of metal for resources. Haul the resources back to base and craft.

Techs will have less of a silly, easy block detach feel. Much slower progression. No free blocks available. Crafting becomes a necessity.

The issue is that currently you end up with too many free blocks from each kill. Without the SCU, it becomes a pain to transport them. So the devs came up with the SCU and also added the percent blocks destroyed on kill. Think my solution is more fun and fixes the underlying problem. Don't give the players free blocks. Give them resources instead.
 
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#12
Welp, looks like this thread has been revived so I might as well share my ideas.

TerraTech is a game about creativity, and building creative techs. The campaign is just a way of adding a sense of progression and survival to that idea. The SCU is the thing that enables that creativity in campaign mode - nerf it, and you nerf the core idea of the game, which is a bad idea IMO.

However, I do think that there need to be some tweaks to the progression of campaign mode with regards to the SCU. Before the SCU, you have to attach blocks to anchors and send them to your inventory that way, which honestly doesn’t feel like a legit game mechanic, and feels more like an exploit. And then after you get the SCU, you immediately have ultimate inventory access. I do think there should be a bit more of a smoother progression. How? I don’t know.
 

Seth_Seth

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#13
Welp, looks like this thread has been revived so I might as well share my ideas.

TerraTech is a game about creativity, and building creative techs. The campaign is just a way of adding a sense of progression and survival to that idea. The SCU is the thing that enables that creativity in campaign mode - nerf it, and you nerf the core idea of the game, which is a bad idea IMO.

However, I do think that there need to be some tweaks to the progression of campaign mode with regards to the SCU. Before the SCU, you have to attach blocks to anchors and send them to your inventory that way, which honestly doesn’t feel like a legit game mechanic, and feels more like an exploit. And then after you get the SCU, you immediately have ultimate inventory access. I do think there should be a bit more of a smoother progression. How? I don’t know.
plz not some sort of Block Allowance for SCUs
 

MrTwister

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#14
How about just making all SCUs except for trading station SCUs use electricity in substantial quantities based on mass of blocks they suck up or deploy?

This will make the game a bit more logistics-conscious (hello Factorio!) and will make SCU usage outside of main base a less-trivial task.
It will also incentivise magnet usage and some nice trucking-haulage designs! :)

Trade station SCUs should have own power source, but they should have limited mass-mandwidth and will take very long time to deploy massive techs, so only useful as emergency and early game.

Also - assembled techs (and singular blocks from inventory) should only be able to deploy within SCU range and SCU performing the work should first suck up enough electricity to cover mass cost of the tech it is trying to deploy or of singular blocks you are trying to pull out.

To avoid space concerns - SCUs should probably have another range circle for tech and block deployment, which should be larger than their block collection range.

I recon this will make the game more fun, not less.
 

Sokolov

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#15
How about just making all SCUs except for trading station SCUs use electricity in substantial quantities based on mass of blocks they suck up or deploy?
This is a very interesting idea! If, for example, it consumes some electricity for startup, and then on your idea... Would really like to see it!
This will make the game a bit more logistics-conscious (hello Factorio!) and will make SCU usage outside of main base a less-trivial task.
It will also incentivise magnet usage and some nice trucking-haulage designs! :)

Trade station SCUs should have own power source, but they should have limited mass-mandwidth and will take very long time to deploy massive techs, so only useful as emergency and early game.
A big YES! Probably even Pay-to-Deploy model - pay BB to gain access for some time.
Also - assembled techs (and singular blocks from inventory) should only be able to deploy within SCU range and SCU performing the work should first suck up enough electricity to cover mass cost of the tech it is trying to deploy or of singular blocks you are trying to pull out.

To avoid space concerns - SCUs should probably have another range circle for tech and block deployment, which should be larger than their block collection range.
Totally must have!
But one thing remains open: SCU space is for now unlimited -so you can dump literally everything here(as I,and, surely,most players do).
IMHO it should be limited - at some way at least. (Because having hundreds of thousands of blocks in your inventory, without even taking ANY means to fit them all is odd).
 

GamerParrish

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#16
TBH the main issue is that the world would be covered because as soon as you add a payed to deploy model you don't pick up those block techs that don't have any worth, but cause a lot of lag. And by the end, the game is dealing with major lag.
 

Sokolov

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#17
TBH the main issue is that the world would be covered because as soon as you add a payed to deploy model you don't pick up those block techs that don't have any worth, but cause a lot of lag. And by the end, the game is dealing with major lag.
If you remember, there was a feature long ago, so that blocks not in SCU or on tech would slowly decay, and eventually cease to exist. If restored,this feature would solve the lag issue. Of course, the decay should take some time - 1 in-game day till it starts, and 1 to decay maybe?
 

Karel Slabý

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#18
Someone has been playing with Applied Energistics too much! :D Good points, but let's not overcomplicate it.

Personally I would like the SCU just to be even more OP by not having to always put down the block, wait and repeat. The infinite storage capacity is debatable, but just throwing BB at it for more storage probably doesn't do much unless it is part of some deeper RPG/stats system. And using energy is the same problem - you would probably end up anchoring and waiting for the thing to charge up from your tech.

Maybe a cool and relatively simple solution could be to have a special premade tech which you could call down (deploy) "from the orbit" for some amount of BB, it would suck in the blocks and then fly back to space (like Crafty Mike does!) - so you call it down and forget (unless you want to watch the coolness).
Or fix the A.I. to a point where it could autonomously pick up blocks and carry/fly them back to your base, but we probably have other priorities right now :D.
 
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Soviet_Samuelson

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#19
I understand your concerns, and I may have just a solution for this - making it save its functionality AND making it a little more balanced.
Let an SCU be a multi-block structure - like in minecraft, which needs some power. For example it can look like so:
XSXSX
XSCSX
XSXSX
One layered multiblock structure, where S - structural block, X- some kind of charging laser and C - core. SCU core can not be stored in an SCU(or at least can not be painted outside of an another SCU range). All blocks could have the dimensions of 1x1x2(height), while the core is 1x1x1, so you can have it on your tech at all times. In return , buff its sucking speed and health. Charging speed should remain the same.
As of Faction SCUs - have no ideas right now.
I like this idea. It actually makes it more movable in the ability of smaller segments, but less so for the need of attaching it to a tech during transport. I´m in full support of this idea
 

Sokolov

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#20
Just reviewed the thread and thought of some more ideas - even another concepts,to be honest.
A)SCU is now split into 3 categories -
1)Collector - large long-range powered block, as the name suggets, only sucks in blocks.
2)Access point - small unpowered block - only enables painting in an area
3)Combines - combine the functions of 1 and 2, also very large and powered. ONLY anchored, possibly multiblock.
B)Blocks can not be painted outside of an SCU AP range.
C)Possibly, SCU capacity is limited as above.
If balanced properly, this could be a viable concept IMHO.
OR
About the compactor idea...
Have an SCU need an inventory block to actually store everything inside. When ready - disconnect the storage cell, move somewhere other.
Need to extract something - pop it on an SCU, paint the blocks you need. Or possiblly simply throw into a special central-base cell...(below)
For large central-base deployments, a large structure with infinite inventory should do-consumes a lot of power and starts up very slowly!