Relay tower rapid transit by tech switching (new late game meta?)

Discussion in 'Open' started by ZeroGravitas, Aug 6, 2017.

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This is...

  1. Cool.

    7 vote(s)
    70.0%
  2. Meh. (But why?)

    3 vote(s)
    30.0%
  3. Undesirable - take it out of the game.

    0 vote(s)
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  1. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    I've not seen anyone doing this before [Edit: see this related suggestion by @Nightblade Greyswandir], despite it having been possible for ever, I presume...? I guess because there was little point before the 1000 chunk deep mineral seams made permanent mining locations a thing. And before trading stations had (limited amounts of) treasure blocks (and reduced block stock availability).
    [​IMG]
    Also, I used 0.7.6.0's unlimited tech loading range to help me set up the network shown (now 'fixed' in 0.7.6.1 :(:p). But, of course, you can still drop a series of 'relay towers' (or 'giant's stepping stones', or...?) by simply travelling the route once the old fashioned way.

    Longer, full HD video, showing visits to auto-mining outposts and shops, the only real reason I can currently think of to justify implementing this trick:


    In the video I travel from coordinates 0:3300 to 1318:1213 in 30 seconds, an average speed of 84m/s (184mph). But if you deduct the little excursion to the shops it's more like 276mph.

    And you could definitely go much quicker, with longer hops using bigger targets to click on (I found out double left click changes tech too - had just forgotten, perhaps).

    The main limiting factor is that the weather can drastically reduce visibility (hence a number of shorter hop towers that I skip over in the videos). About 300 meter jumps is always possible, but you could do up to ~600m. Trading posts have a regular 1Km spacing, currently, so about 3 clicks between each - easily under 10s; worth shopping around!;)

    Bonus Gif - this lets you easily get to auto-miners while they are still playing catchup for all the time you've spent away, spiting out chunks like you've just tapped a new oil well:
    [​IMG]

    It might also cause issues with the (problematic) new "treadmill" world system too, as I seemed to cause this lag-tastic weird bug, coming back to base one time (actual 2fps frame rate shown). Only once though, during much popping back and forth:
    [​IMG]

    Otherwise, I think this trick is good fun and not overpowered.:) (Please don't nerf tech-switching range, in other words!;))

    I consider it's somewhat 'late game', as you need to be able to build/buy a whole bunch of cabs, to make a worth-while number of transfer point techs (and have big blocks to use for ease). Defending the towers isn't really necessary, as techs rarely spawn in during quick transit, and are only animate for a couple seconds if they do make it in range of a tower. But shield/regen bubbles can aid visibility a lot at night and in certain lighting conditions.

     
    #1 ZeroGravitas, Aug 6, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
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  2. Zed

    Zed Well-Known Member

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    While I have seen this tactic in the past I agree that it is a useful tool and were it to be nerfed it would also most likely impact the ability of players to send far away techs back into storage. I happen to agree with the nerf of the place tech feature's functional distance as it was too simple to merely "place" a turret nearly atop of enemy techs while the player merely watches the combat unfold.

    Regarding Distances and speeds; I did some rudimentary testing of each and determined the following. 2 GSO five blocks (10 block lengths for the sake of argument) represent roughly 8 (perhaps 8.5) radar derived minimap distance units While vertically the same 2 GSO five blocks 32 sometimes 33 ft.

    presuming this, I grabbed your distance traveled from above and determined it to be ~2468.33 distance units (Distance = sqrt of Z^2 = sqrt[(X^2)+(Y^2)] which if multiplied by 4.1 is 10120.186 ft (1.916702 miles) which was traveled in 30 seconds (0.06389 miles / s) which turned out to be 230.004 mph per WolframAlpha

    Nonetheless, a faster mph than any ingame plane I've yet to build :) these figures presume than a single coordinate distance on the terratech map is roughly 4.1 ft each (the length of a GSO 2 block for approximation purposes.)

    Regarding Nerfs; the only potential one I could envision would be to require a delay of how long a player must occupy a specific tech before being permitted to switch to another tech though hopefully not.

     
  3. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Maybe you have knock-off GSO blocks:p;); for me, 50 blocks is exactly 50 mini-map coordinate units. (Measured by rotating the origin point of a 25 block length tech through 180, from 200:3000 to 250:3000.)

    10 blocks is indeed 33 feet elevation (in fitting with 1m = 3.28 feet).:)

    Interestingly, the circular divisions on the mini-map aren't quite nice round numbers. I carefully positioned a series of anchored cabs (with radar) every 50 meters along the 3000 North line, as show below, and it seems the major mini-map lines are closer to 90 meters and 180 meters out, for whatever reason:
    [​IMG]

     
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  4. Zed

    Zed Well-Known Member

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    Sounds as if I should engage in more rudimentary testing on a salt flat closer to [0,0] with gso one blocks ; additionally, the testing done in the above post is in 0.7.6 stable and not the latest unstable which impacted the map.

    Irrespective of this more testing is certainly indicated since for all we know we should be doing these measurements in yards as opposed to meters. :) It'd be nice if we were provided formulae for such things like build beams, max span distances, etc etc. :)

    An interesting testing methodology regarding the minimap bubble; last time I checked the three minimap bubbles provided slightly different scales of distance from one another with the hawkeye bubble providing slightly more range than the other two.

    What I did (and will share in a future reply to this thread) was use the lines of the salt flats to place a northward facing geocorp anchor and build out from it to corral a 10x2 (blocks) area off with a 12x4 hollow box which was then populated with a single test vehicle using a Geocorp long girder to keep it within the "test range".

    Edit #1:

    Try as I might I cannot achieve a full 10 map distance units from the salt flat test bed within 0.7.6 but have gotten 9 consistently within the test salt flat. Feel free to check out the attached creative savegame which is depicted below.

    [​IMG]

     

    Attached Files:

    #4 Zed, Aug 7, 2017
    Last edited: Aug 7, 2017
  5. Nightblade Greyswandir

    Nightblade Greyswandir Nothing is good enough!

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  6. JimmyBlether

    JimmyBlether SFS SUPREME COMMANDER

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    Good idea @Nightblade Greyswandir. A world map with the ability to do this would be good.

     
  7. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Please don't take this the wrong way, but you've consistently counted 9 because you've consistently moved 9; you've effectively started counting from 1, instead of zero, or put another way, you failed to account for the 1 unit length of a cab. Think about how you would apply the same method to measure a distance of 2 blocks: a 1 block long tech moving inside a 2 block long space can only move 1 block.

    It's a concept I've never stopped having to struggle with:confused:, so not entirely trivial. Always ensure you are measuring from a specific point of zero dimension, like the front or back face of the cab being moved.
    Hah. Hadn't thought of that. The major markings on the mini-map do happen to fit 100 and 200 yards, etc (1 yard = 0.91 meters). I've just asked on this thread about km/mph.;)


     
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  8. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Oh, thanks for the link to your suggestion from a couple months back; kudos on your video, with a veritable forest of great big, pretty 'transfer towers'.:)

    I definitely think TT needs a full sized map, but using it to switching to any tech anywhere feels like too much... There'd really be no point in a tower network then, for sure.:p;)

    I did feel like maybe I should be able to 'recall' to a central 'nexus' (some unique block), rather than have to click all the way back along the network of towers from an outpost.

    And I think it would definitely be cool to amp up this 'transfer transit' concept, make it official-ish. Linking them with wire, like telegraph poles, doesn't fit. But what about telescopes...? (Could be fixed mounting, so you have to turn a rotating anchor to aim.) That let you see further through the distance haze, and so transfer directly to a further point. Or something similar...?

    (Note: I'd also love to be able to zoom in on distant enemies, to scope them out and appreciate their design, before sniping them.)

     
  9. Zed

    Zed Well-Known Member

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    The INTJ strikes again, Attempting to think three dimensionally regarding a virtual environment displayed on a 2 dimensional plane (panel) within the 3d world. :eek:

    As I mentioned earlier and unless its changed for some reason It seemed as if the Hawkeye Radar provided the best range which might mean that the other two (Venture / GSO) are in Yards with Hawkeye being in meters. Could be an interesting addendum to your continued efforts regarding "the Standards and measurements" of the Terratech Environment.

     
  10. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Oh, meant to say above, too, that I tried all three radars and they each looked identical. I think that this is something I've heard confirmed in a dev stream too; yet another aspiration, to differentiate their functional capabilities.

     
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  11. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Looks like Ssundee cottoned on to this concept. But he went with calling it "fast travel" instead... :(;)



    Expect this idea to start showing up everywhere now, with whatever problems that might bring...

     
  12. Deutsche Würfel

    Deutsche Würfel I look good in this dress.

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    Well this idea has only been around since 0.4 so ionly a few years.

     
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  13. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    You got links or vids of it back then? I'd be interested to see... :)

     
  14. Lost Ninja

    Lost Ninja Well-Known Member

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    It's not very new, nor terribly useful with the frankly shitty map/way point system.

    Fix that and it could be useful but for me I'd say the getting around is more fun than clicking around... point and click games are so old... :D

     
  15. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    This was only useful before you could pull techs and buildings from inventory. Now its faster and easier to use an aircraft and just fly where you want, land, then spawn out whatever you need. I was using this back in 0.5 patches just never posted because it was super useful then and I did not want it patched lol.

     
  16. Khaine

    Khaine Well-Known Member

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    I don't own a plane so this makes more sense for me. As long as you can eyeball where you wanna go it's faster than anything. BUT... if you need like 20 jumps to get to where you wanna go... then yeah, a plane would probably be faster.

     
  17. Redlegdaddy

    Redlegdaddy Well-Known Member

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    Could be a plane or any kind of aircraft, I generally prefer Vtol's myself as regular planes can be hell to get off of the ground if you have to land in rough terrain. Also the name I came up for these kind of towers was Semaphore towers, thought it was interesting because of the history of Semaphore towers =D.

     
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  18. Nightblade Greyswandir

    Nightblade Greyswandir Nothing is good enough!

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    it is not faster to use plane, and it is not a bug but just use of tech select game feature, and it is one of most useful transport systems with or without possibility to pack tech in SCU.

    It is useful especially if you put markers around it so you can find other distant towers with easy. That way you do not have to write down coordinates like you have to do with planes.
    This is old campaign printscreen:
    2017-03-03 19_36_31-Greenshot.jpg

     

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