Proper helicopter suggestion

-=ROOSTER=-

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#1
As @Matt experienced in the last stream, heli's can be very to get working properly in TT. And even then you can never quite get them to work, or look just the way you want them to. The way I see it, there are two ways to fix this. One would be to have the rotors function as their "real life" counterparts do, with changes in angle of attack (or blade pitch) handling pitch, roll, and lift. Second, would be to give us an equivalent to the Venture Pinwheel available in other corporations. That way we could build something functional with parts from a single corp.
 

Rafs

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#2
I'd love rotors to keep the height within a threshold of power it can give; automatic constant height.
Want to change height? Press up/down, and it will try to keep it when you stop pressing. This is so simple and would make rotors unique in relation to motion engines+thrusters, no complicated manual fine tuning of height (like when you need +57.6 power to keep height, nothing more nothing less, good luck hitting it). That's how helicopters work, they keep the height, and TT helicopters hardly do it, even worse if you trim it to move forward like a real heli would do.
If it kept the height automatically while trimmed, perfect.
Of course, everything within a threshold of the maximum power the rotors can deliver.
And being able to change angle of attack by itself would make rotors even more adequate for the job, I'd see people making helis much more often, a "heli revolution" like the one we had with hovers in the BF update.
 
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Captain Load

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#3
I'd love rotors to keep the height within a threshold of power it can give; automatic constant height.
Want to change height? Press up/down, and it will try to keep it when you stop pressing. This is so simple and would make rotors unique in relation to motion engines+thrusters, no complicated manual fine tuning of height (like when you need +57.6 power to keep height, nothing more nothing less, good luck hitting it). That's how helicopters work, they keep the height, and TT helicopters hardly do it, even worse if you trim it to move forward like a real heli would do.
If it kept the height automatically while trimmed, perfect.
Of course, everything within a threshold of the maximum power the rotors can deliver.
And being able to change angle of attack by itself would make rotors even more adequate for the job, I'd see people making helis much more often, a "heli revolution" like the one we had with hovers in the BF update.
Something definately needs to be done about choppers. Right now their fundamentally inferior to antigrav in every way. TBH I'm not sure they even make sense in a world that has stuff like antigrav tech. I would think they would be more like quadcopters which already have auto-leveling and everything else you describe. I envision them as the cheaper version of antigrav tech that never has to rely on external power. Another question is which technology is more efficient at carrying loads. I can imagine old-fashioned variable wing lift outperforming the newfangled repulser technology due to a better power-to-weight ratio but it could just as easily be the other way around. Both systems use whatever voodoo energy that powers most TT blocks (except for the actual "anti-grav" motors that require external power). If I were balancing things I'd probably opt for variable wing having a slight advantage in lift.
 
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burger1113

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#4
As @Matt experienced in the last stream, heli's can be very to get working properly in TT. And even then you can never quite get them to work, or look just the way you want them to. The way I see it, there are two ways to fix this. One would be to have the rotors function as their "real life" counterparts do, with changes in angle of attack (or blade pitch) handling pitch, roll, and lift.
The pitch\roll should definitely be controlled by the main rotor, and lift should be controlled by blade attack angle(currently done by rpm change: sluggish). I've suggested it on a lengthy post a while back, but it seems to have not gotten too much traction in the priority of things.
One idea could be: having rotors on a tech automatically makes them idle at the throttle where the tech will hover. Pressing either of the lift inputs(up or down) would let us alter the throttle momentarily, but the throttle snaps back to where it was the second the key is let go.
Or we could just have it so that the blades work as if they had a stabilizing computer that only works for the y-axis? As @Rafs suggested.
 
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#5
It just seems like the whole thing is way more complicated than it needs to be. A rotor(s) being placed on a tech along with a tail rotor should be all that's needed to perform all those functions. And placing them should activate heli controls. I applaud all the hard work the dev's have put into designing control options, and making a bunch of different axis controlling blocks and stuff. But they could have saved their selves all that work and just made a proper realistic rotor to begin with. I've worked under helicopters before (heavy lift) and every one them ran at the same RPM (full throttle) all day long. even when sitting on the pad re-fueling. They can't take the chance of the weight exceeding the torque threshold of the engines.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#6
One would be to have the rotors function as their "real life" counterparts do, with changes in angle of attack (or blade pitch) handling pitch, roll, and lift
I think @zanzistar did already talk about them doing something like this. Going so far as to speculate about needing a tail rotor to compensate for the kind of rotational drag force you'd expect IRL, too.

I'm not sure such realism is necessarily productive towards making the game more fun and creative... But I'd love to see the off-centre-lift-stalling-when-pitching issue with rotors resolved somehow. And I've been pushing for altitude control on (or instead of) pure throttling (on the lift axis, particularly), which might make throttle lift techs actually fun to control. As Rafs says :
I'd love rotors to keep the height within a threshold of power it can give; automatic constant height.

econd, would be to give us an equivalent to the Venture Pinwheel available in other corporations.
To be fair, all the corps now have adjustment thrusters, which enable this. The Pinwheel is actually weaker than them too, which might bear looking at (how much would changing its strength mess up past helicopter's control?). But more small fans, etc, for tail rotors might no go amiss.
 

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#7
Well, I didn't literally mean models that really change pitch. I was attempting to illustrate why burgers point that using throttle for lift isn't the way to do it- was correct. Almost no one can make the necessary calculations (in real time) To keep from going back and forth over-shooting the correct amount of thrust (each way) that you need, as you crash into the ground. None of it need be modeled, couldn't see it with them spinning anyhow. The performance hit from rendering them alone would keep that from being doable. Not that it would mean anything if you did- there's no actual air for them to interact with. I was thinking that the game already has a center line that it keeps track of (that's how it knows when to make a rotor go wonky if not placed on it) and from that point looking at it like the rotor is split 4 ways with "Y" axis being pitch, and "X" roll. I'm not a coder, but the functions are already there it would (I think) just be a matter of redirecting them. About the pinwheels, the amount of thrust they produce is exactly what I like about them. I just think it would be nice (being that they are so useful while being only a 1 block) if other corps had something similar that you could use for purely aesthetic reasons.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#8
Well, I didn't literally mean models that really change pitch.
Right, like the block's footprint would have to be expanded to allow for that, complex animation, etc. Do-able, but unnecessary work, maybe. I'm pretty keen on WYSIWYG, though, so would like some indication that it is a rotor providing pitch control response to your input. Could be confusing for players new to them.