My Thoughts On The New Unstable

Discussion in 'Open' started by BenBacon, May 15, 2018.

?

Which Points Do You Agree With

  1. HG1

  2. Hover Power

  3. Zeus Laser

  4. Ring Of Options

Multiple votes are allowed.
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  1. BenBacon

    BenBacon Founder Of Bacon, Inc

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    This will be a long post with my opinions on the new unstable, covering all the problems and my proposed solutions to them

    HG1
    The rotation speed of all the explosive weapons had been decreased, making some balanced and others useless. One example is the HG1, which looks as if it isn't rotating at all

    The solution to this is to simply review all the weapons individually and balance them

    Hover Power Increase
    The increase of power to all hovers has broken many techs, hover bug or not. Also, increasing the power of the hovers still misses some key points, such as:
    -No braking system so the tech tends to drift about
    -Hovers still react to techs, trees, and rocks, sometime violently, flipping the tech
    -Treats slopes as surfaces, but pushes off of them in an inconvenient direction

    Some solutions are:
    -Have two sliders for the power of the hover and the suspension dampening of the hover
    -Revert the changes completely
    -Revert the changes and add a new hover that can adjusts itself according to the ground

    Zeus Laser
    Having gone from an obese GSO laser to a viable weapon, this laser has received yet another buff, though it is still not enough
    The main differences of this and the GSO one are size and the feature of a turret, but since the Zeus Laser rotates so slowly, it might as well not have one. Also, due to the long reload time and underwhelming projectile size and look, eight GSO Lasers can and will deal more damage. Hawkeye is supposed to be superior to GSO, yet some of their weapons are cumbersome

    The solution here is simple: increase rotation speed and decrease fire rate

    Ring of Options Around Tech
    This one is minor, but still causes an inconvenience. The "Switch Tech" option has been moved to the right and replaced by "Rename Tech." Honestly, I don't see why this is necessary as you can already rename a tech by pressing R or taking a snapshot and changing the name

    Simply put the "Coming Soon" one with the drill back because I think it keeps new players waiting and staying for new updates
    Another solution is keep it in the ring, but have it switch places with "Switch Tech"

    Tell me is you agree or disagree with any of my opinions
    Please do not put any spam or off-topic replies as this is a serious thread :)

     
  2. QuackDuck

    QuackDuck Duck

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    I have more solutions:
    - Implement @WhitePaw2002 's new mod which makes hovers follow the terrain instead of bouncing. This would be very good in the long term for the viability of hovers on rough terrain. A hover strength slider, as mentioned above, should be added alongside this as well.

    If the devs deem that as "requires a lot of code work" I have a hopefully simpler solution:
    - Revert the power changes to all GSO and VEN hovers, but keep the current strengths for the GEO Powerlifter and EXP Flying Fortress hovers.
    This way, smaller techs can use the GSO and VEN hovers to stop bouncing, while larger techs will benefit from the immense strength of the GEO and EXP hovers.

     
  3. WhitePaw2002

    WhitePaw2002 Modding Husky

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    hmm...

    Code:
                    {
                        //pre-existing code goes here
                        num2 = (raycastHit.distance);
                        float d = (lastdist - num2);
                        d = d*1000;
                        d = Mathf.Min(d, this.forceMax * 15f);
                        d = Mathf.Max(-this.forceMax * 5f, d);
                        rigidbody.AddForceAtPosition(-this.effector.forward * d, vector);
                        lastdist = num2;
                    }
                    else
                        lastdist = this.forceRangeMax;
    Put in the Hover script right with where physics are applied

    Make 'lastdist' a local float variable

    I'd tone down the maximum of d to something lower than 15 times the maximum force (and tone down the ' * 1000') to a level that is desired. The currently set values do work, and work quite well.

    Make the minimum of d 0 instead of a negative value to prevent pulling, if desired.

    Tweak as necessary. Maybe replace constant values with public variables that could be set from the Unity Inspector. That way, certain hovers could be unique or such
    This is my own method, that I allow use of without needing to give credit back to me. (Although credit would be appreciated, it is not needed.)

    (gif) Exaggerated Results << Imgur link to what is possible with this.
    The Block Replacement mod has a version of this implemented on GSO 2x2 hovers

    pls devs do this for us

    EDIT: Made fit in with current strength of GSO 2x2 hovers

     
    #3 WhitePaw2002, May 15, 2018
    Last edited: May 21, 2018
  4. Legionite

    Legionite Carrier Aircraft AI

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    Hmm, so the new hovers are far too strong to get accuracy when building.

    Maybe make a new two block tall hover with the current strength of the terraphobe (because it is actually useful as a hover that way, and the old sober height of the terraphobe was bad), and revert all the old hovers back to their original states.

    What I think needs a small buff has to be the steering hovers, or a big GEO Corp one, since it is hard to control the hovers with them.

     
  5. JimmyBlether

    JimmyBlether A Merry Axolotl

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    That looks simple enough.
    @zanzistar
    @Sammi
    @Adriano
    @Greg
    @kae

     
  6. Nightblade Greyswandir

    Nightblade Greyswandir Nothing is good enough!

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    like²*like²*like²*like²*like²²²²²
    because one is not enough!

     
  7. JimmyBlether

    JimmyBlether A Merry Axolotl

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    You mean like^9X10^99999999999999999e

     
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  8. WhitePaw2002

    WhitePaw2002 Modding Husky

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    Eventually a coder would brush by this code and just slip it in the game... hopefully before the next unstable...

     
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  9. JimmyBlether

    JimmyBlether A Merry Axolotl

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    We just got another unstable.

     
  10. WhitePaw2002

    WhitePaw2002 Modding Husky

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    ...the next one?

     
    #10 WhitePaw2002, May 16, 2018
    Last edited: May 16, 2018
  11. Icarus_The_King_Of_Angels

    Icarus_The_King_Of_Angels S H I N Y Mad Scientist

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    In before there's another unstable today

     
  12. higekun

    higekun PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    No promises about slipping things in the game, but I did take a quick look at this :)

    Your code completely changes the functionality of hover blocks, so that's not something we would do, but there's potential for adding a new block that works that way - some sort of anti-gravity block perhaps.

    Actually the maths you're using is very similar to a damper function of the sort you would apply to a spring (ie a resisting force in proportion to the amount of motion), which is interesting because the current hover physics is essentially an un-damped spring. I had a quick play with adding dampers to the current hover jets, and it seems to work pretty well. Adding a damper to the existing hover blocks is something we could potentially do, and we could have more or less damping per corp or per block, allowing some hover blocks to be bouncier than others.

    This is a design decision, of course, but we'll chat about it in the team and see what we can come up with ;)
    R.

    PS if anyone would like to post some snapshots of hover-powered techs that you think should work better than they currently do, please go ahead, and we can use them as test cases.

     
  13. QuackDuck

    QuackDuck Duck

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    I have some examples. These were all made extremely bouncy and uncontrollable in the latest update.

     

    Attached Files:

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  14. WhitePaw2002

    WhitePaw2002 Modding Husky

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    The code was not intended to replace anything... It was to be added to the end of the pre-existing code.

    That's all I need to hear. As long as hovers are getting improved!

     
  15. Zed

    Zed Well-Known Member

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    GSO Corp FlatTop.png

    Used Hovers to offset weight to improve mobility on treacherous mountain terrain, now floats and leans forward rendering the tech effectively helpless with the new hover settings (could be rebalanced as it is an old tech from mid 2017)

    Venture Ornithopter4.png

    Bounces within build beam with new hover settings; also is more prone to bouncing than with previous hover settings (also exists currently ingame as an enemy awaiting flying capabilities of the AI to reach its zenith.)

    GeoCorp Locust mk4.png

    Also uses hovers to offset weight, now uselessly hovers above resources as opposed to be able to bounce along collecting resources due to recent changes, could be rebalanced and improved as it is also a mid 2017 (last changed when lift changes were made to hawkeye rotors)

    Generally speaking, it would seem the largest issue surrounding the recent change to hover strength has been that it impacted already-existing techs as opposed to merely introducing new, more powerful hover blocks available to various corporations that players could elect to use.

     
  16. JimmyBlether

    JimmyBlether A Merry Axolotl

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    You mentioned video bouncing in the build beam. It's a pain. The hover power buff was a bad idea. A tech with 1 high lift height hover jiggles like mad in the beam.

     
  17. Soviet_Samuelson

    Soviet_Samuelson Getting a permit to life in a jolly box

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    once i saw an enemy that uses hovers as a way to reduce weight, but it was hovering uselessly!

     
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  18. zanzistar

    zanzistar PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    ZeroGravitas likes this.
  19. harpo99999

    harpo99999 ah kick till it starts

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    I have seen two different large critters (both with geocorp wheels and hovers (gso 1 @ 4) and the critters were just floating around even before I moved into activate range

     

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