Making the factions more unique and balanced

Would you like to see the 4 factions be more diverse and balanced?


  • Total voters
    8

DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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Currently the factions have a vague focus on what they are good at and there's very little balance between them.

GSO: They want to set up and regulate areas, so they focus on bases. Super heavy weapons, missile silos, batteries, and shields that only work while anchored.

GeoCorp: They just wanna dig. If any faction should have a mobile refinery and delivery cannon, it should be geocorp. It would also be sweet if they had 2 x 2 x 2 pipe blocks that could move resources around and into some big enclosed silos, so that huge piles of resources don't bog down frames per second. Also, their huge drills should be better at knocking blocks off of enemy techs and getting to their cab, they are drills after all.

Venture: Is already pretty focused on speed, however the devs really need to update the gun targeting. Currently if you are driving by a tech that is not moving, all of your bullets will land 50 feet off in the direction that you are moving. The seeker missiles they are getting do help quite a bit at making a fast, drive by attack tech more viable, but their guns should be able to do a drive by attack.

Hawkeye: Besides the the fact that the most combat focused faction has no shields or batteries, they are pretty combat focused already. To add a stealth mechanic, I'd love to see these two blocks added to the game (more multiplayer pvp focused): Radar Jammer, jams the radar of nearby techs. Cloaking device: Your tech becomes nearly invisible, but drains a lot of battery for each block on your tech. Hawk eye blocks would take a bit less battery to stealth. Firing your guns would end your stealth. This way, for a battery cost, hawk eye could actually be stealthy, and not just have the word stealth in their block descriptions.

There's a lot of details I didn't go into, and I just mentioned some other things I'd love to see in the game like an overhaul on how resources are handled and stored as well as an overhaul for the way guns aim at enemy techs.

Regards, DoomDude
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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Currently the factions have a vague focus on what they are good at and there's very little balance between theme
I do not agree. We do not need more specialization than we have now. They are already very much divided by what can be done with blocks from what corporation, so further specialization would be too much. Actually to make that in question, what would you do to make corporations even more divided.

GSO already have what you wrote.
GC, do they dig or sell? If they dig then they should leave GSO to fabricate and sell... If they sell then they ned fabrics and all that now belong to GSO so they can beat them in selling prices.
Venture, if guns are better, venture speed would not be enough for venture to be of any use. Better aiming is two ways street, so if fast venture tech can aim better then they can be aimed at better also. BTW check unstable version, they got guided missiles on rotation turrets.
HE, I know that cloaking was already asked for, but I do not remember what was answer from developers.
BTW, @devs, we need, but really need HE batteries...

Resources got overhauled, we are all waiting for new update to see how much of our precious fps that will save :)

And plese go in details! We need more details.
 
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Pink Kitty

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I disagree with some of the assumptions here.

And most of the corporations don't 'want' anything, other than to sell blocks of offworld miners.

GSO comes closest, by sponsoring in a poor under funded way the whole effort (which clearly went horribly wrong).

GC don't need a mobile refinery. You just build a base for bulk refining, and put 20x receiver pads on it.
One driveby with two full Scotty pads, and you're back to mining.

Venture. Actually, i agree with this. They either need an upgrade, or more weapons that work at speed. Like Bomb Droppers.

HawkEye. At some point some of the radars are going to show the size of the tech. Like, a bigger dot. The most realistic, and easiest way for HE to get stealth, is if their blocks don't count for much. So a pure HE tech shows as a small dot. Which is a horrible surprise when you crest the rise :p
 

DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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The primary purpose of the additional diversity and blocks would be to make all 4 corporations good for something at end game.

In the current state of the game, a multiplayer world that had been around for a while with a bit of pvp areas you would eventually see a very heavy trend:

-The best base you can build: is covered with hawkeye guns, venture shields, and piles of geocorp batteries

-The best money making harvester you can build: uses hawkeye rail guns, which obliterate rocks instantly, to mine, then uses venture mobile refineries and cannons to sell it immediately, and has hawkeye or venture wheels to get from rock cluster to rock cluster fast

-The best drive by attack vehicle is almost entirely hawkeye, using rotors to increase maximum speed and then launching seeker missiles sideways at your opponent

-And then the best tech in a straight fight is also mostly hawkeye, using gso and geocorp batteries and venture shields because hawkeye doesn't have those things yet

If you disagree, try it in the game first, then compare it to what you think is more effective
 

DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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Also I would like to elaborate a bit on the venture guns at high speeds thing.

The game's current targeting system: Your guns always aim at the nearest enemy cab, the projectiles are given a random variation based on the type of weapon. Lasers and rail guns have no variation, the venture Oozee SMG has a lot of variation. If you vehicle is moving, the project will also carry the momentum of your tech. The easiest way to hit a moving target is to be moving in the same direction parallel to them. And most of the time this systems leads to either all of your shots hitting them, or all of them missing.

Superior targeting system: When your guns shoot, the game finds the distance from your gun to the nearest enemy cab, divides by the speed to get the approximate time for the projectile to reach enemy. Then using the enemies current speed and direction, finds out where the enemy cab will be in the amount of time it will take the projectile to reach them, and aims there. If we stopped here, all guns would nail the cab of a vehicle moving in a straight line at a constant speed. From here we apply a random variation based on the weapon and the speed at which the vehicle is moving. So guns would lose accuracy the faster you are going, but still be able to hit some of the time. Venture guns would lose less accuracy from speed than other guns. So while a hawkeye burst gun is more accurate than a venture oozee SMG when fired from someone whose not moving, they could have similar accuracy in a vehicle moving at 70 mph for example
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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The primary purpose of the additional diversity and blocks would be to make all 4 corporations good for something at end game.
This is open world adventure of building, there is no end game. All before you unlock all blocks is like slow tutorial so you can actually have fun after you unlock all.

-The best base you can build: is covered with hawkeye guns, venture shields, and piles of geocorp batteries
best base, was up to last unstable update, yellow bricks, yellow repair field, megacanon hidden behind yellow armor, with just a few rockets to counter small fast vaentura tech. Ventura shiedls???

-The best money making harvester you can build: uses hawkeye rail guns, which obliterate rocks instantly, to mine, then uses venture mobile refineries and cannons to sell it immediately, and has hawkeye or venture wheels to get from rock cluster to rock cluster fast
Best money making harvester is one who do not sell anything, as when refined and turned in to components before selling materials worth much more. So Yellow tech again, defended by few megacanons and few rockets with dedicated tool for particular material harvest, in combination with yellow base that is full of GSO refineries and component factories. That is how you can make real money.

-The best drive by attack vehicle is almost entirely hawkeye, using rotors to increase maximum speed and then launching seeker missiles sideways at your opponent
Depends a lot on what you are fighting against. Megacanons are much better for shield (power depleting) than anything, so for really functional tech, mega canons in combo with rockets and rail-guns. For bases, just rail-guns, but lot of them, on big yellow very stable tech that will not move from firing.

-And then the best tech in a straight fight is also mostly hawkeye, using gso and geocorp batteries and venture shields because hawkeye doesn't have those things yet
What is with ventura shields? I find them very bad as I have to put them on every five blocks to cover tech properly. Use GSO like everybody else :p Hawkeye usually needs one front and cab shields, as it is hard to kill anyway, so just HE repair fields and two or three shields of players choice. And if you know how to make GC mobile fort with megacaonons and rockets, it will kill every HE you can find.

If you disagree, try it in the game first, then compare it to what you think is more effective
I am trying this game for almost 400 hours in last three months, do you think it is enough? How many hours player need to have to be able to say that he/she tried the game?
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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BTW, if I sound too much on side of sarcasm, in any moment it is not intention. Just a little in some places yes, but without intention to insult anybody or poke in the eye. it is just that english is not my mother language and I do not know better phrases to say some things.
 
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Pink Kitty

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I am trying this game for almost 400 hours in last three months, do you think it is enough? How many hours player need to have to be able to say that he/she tried the game?
Missing the point.

The point is not to play the game for X number of hours, the point is to try what they suggested, and see if you agree with the conclusions.

Do you?
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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Missing the point.

The point is not to play the game for X number of hours, the point is to try what they suggested, and see if you agree with the conclusions.

Do you?
OK, my bad. I understud it wrong.
But I did lot of comparation in my gaming, and I posted what I think is better from my experience. BTW I think @DoomDude is not playing unstable, so he is missing some new blocks that I use, so I can recommend him to try new blocks, he will find out that some of his issues are slowly being improved.
 

DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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Playing latest unstable with all the blocks and I love the R&D test chamber since you can change allegiance of techs and bases to test them. Just an FYI.

Me? I like math, I'm the kind of guy who beat skyrim on legendary by maxing alchemy, enchanting, and smithing before fighting a single enemy. I deeply apologize if sound arrogant and narcissistic and take a pretty casual building game way too seriously, I just like math.

Two geocorp batteries with a venture shield in front vs 3 megatons. The shields go down in 62 seconds.
Two geocorp batteries with a gso shield in front vs 3 megatons. The shields go down in 40 seconds.

End game = you have enough money that you don't care if you need a million bucks to cover your tech in venture shields.

Two geocorp batteries with a gso shield in front vs 3 hawkeye seeker missile pods. The shields go down in 58 seconds. However you can fit 6 seeker missile pods into the same space as 3 megatons, so at end game, seeker missile pods > megatons (and don't forget they hit faster techs a lot more than megatons do).

And about the money making thing, I actually forgot about components because my system can't handle a set up for making components. So you do have me there, I eat my words, except that rail guns still mine rocks faster than drills, that part is still true and funny. And that yellow wheels move slow = less harvesting than big venture or hawkeye wheels.

Sometimes I look at how competitive I can get in a single player sandbox and just give myself a good face palm. Ouch

P.S. Don't use venture shields unless they stick out in front of what you want to protect, when a megaton or rocket hits the tiny shield the explosion will damage anything close to where the mega bullet hit the shield
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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Me? I like math, I'm the kind of guy who beat skyrim on legendary by maxing alchemy, enchanting, and smithing before fighting a single enemy. I deeply apologize if sound arrogant and narcissistic and take a pretty casual building game way too seriously, I just like math.
I see that we will get along quite nicely...

Two geocorp batteries with a venture shield in front vs 3 megatons. The shields go down in 62 seconds.
Two geocorp batteries with a gso shield in front vs 3 megatons. The shields go down in 40 seconds.
When yo uask engineers, statistic is not math... For example, to covers same area you can cover with 4 GSO you need at least 9 V sheilds, so they are close... if you do not cound splash damage. But splash damage dry out your batteries over repair bubbles, so over all GSO wins.

End game = you have enough money that you don't care if you need a million bucks to cover your tech in venture shields.
Correct, but I like to optimize, so less shields that cover more are better from optimization point of view.

Two geocorp batteries with a gso shield in front vs 3 hawkeye seeker missile pods. The shields go down in 58 seconds. However you can fit 6 seeker missile pods into the same space as 3 megatons, so at end game, seeker missile pods > megatons (and don't forget they hit faster techs a lot more than megatons do).
Missiles (before new ventura missiles) do not cover 360 deg around. To cover all four directions with Seeker missiles you need 4 of them, one in every direction, so for same power of megacanon you need 12 seeker missiles, and they do not work if enemy is on 45 degrees, and close, they will hit behind him. So Megacanon wins.

And about the money making thing, I actually forgot about components because my system can't handle a set up for making components. So you do have me there, I eat my words, except that rail guns still mine rocks faster than drills, that part is still true and funny. And that yellow wheels move slow = less harvesting than big venture or hawkeye wheels.
When you harvest resources, try different tools on different resources and count how many chunks of resources each of them leave behind. Fast is good only for resources that are dispersed over deserts, then I make ventura harvester.

My daughter is good in ESO... does that count?
 
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DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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I mean making an experiment and using a stop watch is no more statistics than calculating gravity by dropping stuff and timing it lol.

Shields work a bit funny in this game. Even if you need 9 venture shields to cover the same area as one gso, if a megaton shoots at that area, the first venture shield the projectile meets will block the shot and only that shield will consume the power. The splash damage is not a projectile, it is not blocked by shields, and it does not drain battery. All in all, 9 venture shields to cover an area will stand up to megatons longer than a single gso covering the same area. The passive drain on shields is only noticeable if you use a low amount of batteries and wait an hour.

A rotating anchor solves the seeker's lack of turning. Just really hope one day you can put rotating anchors on top of your walls and they'll each turn individually.

After about 20 minutes of testing different drills vs rail guns for harvesting, everything will almost always drop 7 resources, no matter how it was destroyed. The only variations being that trees depend on the type of tree and crystals come in different sizes. But none of the drills get more resources than a rail gun. Also how do you not like the idea of using a rail gun to mine :)
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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Gravity measurement on different places of earth is statistics. Proving how and why it works is science.

Splash damage...
Ventura shields can not stand longer then GSO if attacked by megacanons.

Tech anchored on tech will not happened soon. There is a issue with physic in that situation, as anchored tech do not "see" tech to witch it is anchored so masive clipping occur. Also for tech that have anchored tech on it, anchored tech have weight of zero no matter of how many blocks you put on anchored, so it brake immersion. So until some game engine update or if devs figure it out somehow, there is no tech anchored on tech.

Hmmm.... I read that different tools will drop chunks in different number and cut speed, depending of if it is intended to be used on that resource (saw for wood, dril for stone, laser for crystal) but it seam it is not yet implemented. My mistake. I am bad harvester, as I was hunter in my adventure. last update make that less good option as block drop is greatly reduced, so I will have to learn to harvest efficiently...
 

DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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Shield bubble test.JPG

In your test, your shields have renewable power, so you can't measure the power drain of megatons on the different shields.

Venture shield bubbles are also so small that they need a repair bubble to cover them since explosions are not blocked or absorbed by shields and can damage your physical blocks.

The simple set up above just lets you count the times the megatons shoot each set up, just toggle allegiance of the shielded techs one at a time.
The single gso bubble takes 2 x 14 shots for the shields to go down,
the single venture takes 20 x 2,
the single venture + repair takes 20 x 2,
and the 6 venture shields + 1 repair takes 19 x 2 shots. Most likely due to multiple blocks taking a bit of splash damage that the repair bubble had to fix

The anchored AI wobbles back and forth, causing shots to miss randomly, which will skew results. Use a solid anchor and just put the AI block up top facing backwards, megatons will aim themselves.
 

Nightblade Greyswandir

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My test was about splash damage, not about power drain.
Btw, download OBS, it is very good and easy for use, and it does not make lag when recording screen.

And... using your math. In GSO bubble you can fit almost three time more weapons, so it will take three times lees time to neutralize enemy... so GSO draining batterises faster is nulled as flaw by fire power that it can protect.

BAH... this actually lead to the point of how good balance this game have. So congratulations to developers!!!
Using this or that is just matter of personal taste more than practical needs, as it depend a lot of playing style and armor and weapon preferences of player. But I have to admit it was a pleasure to talk to you. If I am not under detention, I would keep this on for a while, but mods can missinterpret our conversation for heavy argument and ban me from forum.
 

DoomDude

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Mar 26, 2017
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Yeah venture bubbles would be a lot better if shields blocked the explosion splash damage.

I can't wait until there's multiplayer with a bit of pvp, the competitiveness would cause a natural selection of techs that win more, I'm really curious as to how that turns out.

Was a pleasure talking, got a little bit off the topic of adding some more blocks to make the corporations more unique to each other, but this thread is still full of useful information for the devs, hope they read it.

thanks,
DoomDude