Make my Tech smaller: Add Non-Fuel Filter option

Babbelicious

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Jul 4, 2017
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How about adding a Non-Fuel filter option?

I really miss this, cuz i regularly wanna filter Non-Fuel blocks off of a silo, mostly to
throw it off the tech with the EXP Dropper. But theres no way to do it with a single order.

This would make the deal, wouldn't it be nice?

Next to the fuel filter, or as an undercategory of refined... or so
tt_nofuel_filter_suggestion1.png

I'd be so happy ;)!!

Greetz
 

Jamie

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You could filter off the fuel to another silo/conveyor loop...and then drop the remaining resources with the Dropper?
 

Zed

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Dec 23, 2016
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How about adding a Non-Fuel filter option?

I really miss this, cuz i regularly wanna filter Non-Fuel blocks off of a silo, mostly to
throw it off the tech with the EXP Dropper. But theres no way to do it with a single order.

This would make the deal, wouldn't it be nice?

Next to the fuel filter, or as an undercategory of refined... or so
View attachment 14869

I'd be so happy ;)!!

Greetz
I agree with this suggestion as it is very similar to #3 of 5 suggestions made here some weeks ago.
 

tomo_cjt

Well-Known Member
Aug 14, 2014
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The filter creates 2 paths:
  • The objects chosen via the filter (in this case Fuel)
  • All the objects NOT chosen via the filter (in this case Not Fuel)
So you can do what you want with the system already :)
 

Babbelicious

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Jul 4, 2017
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You could filter off the fuel to another silo/conveyor loop...and then drop the remaining resources with the Dropper?
This is actually exactly what I don't wanna have to do, cuz it takes a lot of space (which is what i mean with "Make my Tech smaller") AND time, since i gotta wait for all
those fuel chunks to be filtered first, before i can drop all others.
Thats what i mean with 1 single step: from a single silo!

I wanna be able to filter out all fuel chunks AND drop all others off at the same time, with only 1 silo,
so my tech stays nicely small and compact! ... and i can't do that with the current filter options.

See the filtering result of this filter setup (given a mix of everything):


Without having attached the "unrefined" and "refined" filters (bottom), the chunks (now landed there) would have
landed up in the "all" filter, which is actually what i wanna drop off simultaneously to filtering fuel chunks.

In this setup, the middle line conveyor pushed only 1 chunk onto the silo each turn,
which keeps the filter result yet ok here! ...But imagine i got 3 lines:
3 chunks passed onto the silo each turn, only 1 can be filtered per turn by each filter .
passing in 2 fuel chunks would lead into 1 being filtered by "fuel", but one being dropped off by "all".
That's 50:50 ... not really desirable, or is it?

Have a thought about it ;)!

Greetings!
 

Zed

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Dec 23, 2016
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This is actually exactly what I don't wanna have to do, cuz it takes a lot of space (which is what i mean with "Make my Tech smaller") AND time, since i gotta wait for all
those fuel chunks to be filtered first, before i can drop all others.
Thats what i mean with 1 single step: from a single silo!

I wanna be able to filter out all fuel chunks AND drop all others off at the same time, with only 1 silo,
so my tech stays nicely small and compact! ... and i can't do that with the current filter options.

See the filtering result of this filter setup (given a mix of everything):


Without having attached the "unrefined" and "refined" filters (bottom), the chunks (now landed there) would have
landed up in the "all" filter, which is actually what i wanna drop off simultaneously to filtering fuel chunks.

In this setup, the middle line conveyor pushed only 1 chunk onto the silo each turn,
which keeps the filter result yet ok here! ...But imagine i got 3 lines:
3 chunks passed onto the silo each turn, only 1 can be filtered per turn by each filter .
passing in 2 fuel chunks would lead into 1 being filtered by "fuel", but one being dropped off by "all".
That's 50:50 ... not really desirable, or is it?

Have a thought about it ;)!

Greetings!
Seeing as I have similar thoughts regarding factory optimization I will spend some time trying to create a factory filter setup with the presently-available conveyor filter options to address these topics this week as @Jamie is quite accurate in stating that Payload Studios is currently engaged in coding to help Terratech reach 1.0 release status.

I would be shocked if crafting remained untouched between now and then; for now all we can do is hang on and be patient :)
 

Mr-Vagabond

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Dec 21, 2015
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In factory optimisation, what I need is a "no" filter, we have a yes one ( pass only this ressource) this will be great to have a filter that pass ALL ressource exept one I think.. ( all exept refinned, all exept raw, all exept component, all exeptfuel, all exept raw plumbit etc.. with the same menu of the filter in game can be very usefull thoug )
 

Adriano

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May 16, 2016
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I don't usually get involved in the Suggestions threads, but this kinda feels like part of the game? You have all the tools already to achieve what you need. If you need a slightly larger tech to accommodate it, that's part of the trade off. The challenge of a game like this is to be able to build what you want within the limitations. Us adding a block to help isn't really the solution to the challenge you've set yourself.

For example, I might want a tech that's small and fast but well defended. But batteries are too heavy for me to be able to achieve that. Does that mean we need to add lighter batteries so I can make the tech I want?
 
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Nightblade Greyswandir

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I don't usually get involved in the Suggestions threads, but this kinda feels like part of the game? You have all the tools already to achieve what you need. If you need a slightly larger tech to accommodate it, that's part of the trade off. The challenge of a game like this is to be able to build what you want within the limitations. Us adding a block to help isn't really the solution to the challenge you've set yourself.

For example, I might want a tech that's small and fast but well defended. But batteries are too heavy for me to be able to achieve that. Does that mean we need to add lighter batteries so I can make the tech I want?
Why then we have refined and raw resources filter... we should use only one of these two options, as other is just not-the-first-option.
You put so much time to make components and to make everything more complicated to produce, and now when we ask for better filtering so we can enjoy complicated design you put limitations as rule...
 

Zed

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Why then we have refined and raw resources filter... we should use only one of these two options, as other is just not-the-first-option.
You put so much time to make components and to make everything more complicated to produce, and now when we ask for better filtering so we can enjoy complicated design you put limitations as rule...
Components are still relatively new but have come a long way since they were first introduced; regarding Raw vs Refined I suspect some type of change to this "evolutionary divide" will arrive sometime before 0.8.0 given that compressed resource bricks now exist within game and that so few recipes require unrefined resources presently there may be a way to help streamline the resource side of the ingame crafting calculus.

I don't usually get involved in the Suggestions threads, but this kinda feels like part of the game? You have all the tools already to achieve what you need. If you need a slightly larger tech to accommodate it, that's part of the trade off. The challenge of a game like this is to be able to build what you want within the limitations. Us adding a block to help isn't really the solution to the challenge you've set yourself.
In general I agree with points from both sides; Refinement would be greatly welcomed with some key tweaks which have been suggested here and there in various threads since components were released yet at the same time for the time being crafting by and large does work, even if there are some rough edges within the experience still to smooth as time progresses.
 
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tomo_cjt

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Why then we have refined and raw resources filter... we should use only one of these two options, as other is just not-the-first-option
I'm afraid that's not true - They're subsets of resource chunks, but not everything is Raw or Refined, there are also Components.

Meanwhile everything falls into the Fuel and Not Fuel category.
Same as Raw and Not Raw.

With a filter, you get two paths:
  • Filtered
  • Not Filtered
The Tech in the top image, if you weren't putting them into a silo (what's the reason for that by the way?) and just had conveyors and filters you could filter out things to separate silos however you want.

The thing you can't do is pull Not Filtered objects out of a silo, but for filtering things into them or moving them around your base you have all the options.

As Jamie said, we're not likely to dedicate time to that at the moment, and to be totally honest I would be surprised if crafting gets many changes before 1.0.
 
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Mr-Vagabond

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Hum I kinda understand what you are saying...Sen that we are talking about the crafting system, can you fixe the way the crafting block behave ? some can be flip upside down, some doesnt, I know the non fliping was made to simplify the construction of base but now this is limitating us in our build ( and why the GSO and Venture raffinery have the exact same shape/oientation ? )
 
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Masakari

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The Tech in the top image, if you weren't putting them into a silo (what's the reason for that by the way?) and just had conveyors and filters you could filter out things to separate silos however you want.
It's quicker to direct multiple lines from different directions to a silo for quicker storage/clearing of lines/receivers (like adding multiple one block receivers to a silo or conveyor line (at least for the first tick on the conveyor line anyways), and then have multiple branches leading from it. Of course this was before the heartbeat block was added, though the ones who are not using unstable don't have this yet so they might do that setup.

Filters also still have that weird behavior with missing some things every now and then (unless you double or triple up on each filter which takes up a ton of space btw) which a silo can remedy and not take up more space/travel time an overflow line would take to add in.

some can be flip upside down, some doesnt, I know the non fliping was made to simplify the construction of base but now this is limitating us in our build
I'd like the rotations to be fixed to be more intelligent or in order. The Component factory is a good example as you need to go through ALL the other APs/orientations to get that last upright facing. Even limiting the sideways placement (making a 2 high pocket for it to sit in) it still needs to go through ALL the upside down positions first. It's like the last upright facing is in the middle of everything as it takes the same time/clicks/presses either direction of rotation.

Same with other blocks like the fabricators (GEO/HE ones specifically as they have way too many APs) as I spend more time fighting the rotation system to get it situated right.

@DEVS Can you make ALL base blocks have upright facings/orientations first before cycling through all APs (upside down and sideways)?

GSO and Venture raffinery have the exact same shape/oientation ?
Probably because they are just re-skins of the same block with venture having a mobile function?

I find it frustrating trying to build any form of compact and efficient bases due to the single direction we are only allowed/forced to build in if we don't want bottlenecks and blocking of output ports. We can switch the direction of conveyors, why can't we utilize this more with having mirrored base blocks?

It really messes up my designs incorporating a mobile refining and selling system due to the refs NOT having a mirrored model as it throws off the symmetry (which annoys me to no end), and forcing me to add more than is needed/wanted and wasting space...

It also makes all bases look and feel very similar to each other...

@DEVS Could we have a modifier key (like we have ALT when placing blocks) to place a mirrored version (once these are made....if ever)? This would make it so the inventory screen would not be bloated with all the mirrored versions. Of course this would probably have to be when we get the key-binds/control update (really, really hope this comes sooner rather than later near 1.0)...

I also know this has been asked for before (mirrored versions) and shot down for reasons which at the time (and still to this day) don't make sense to me. Is it really that difficult to swap/mirror the model (not sure what program you are using to make the models, but don't all graphic/model design programs have a mirror function? We got mirrored wings and now the dune wheels/GEO tracks or did you design/create them each separately/individually?) and functions (input/output by just swapping a couple variables in the code line).

Not trying to antagonize/be hostile here, but it just baffles me is all. I don't code/model design so that is probably why it baffles me.
 
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Babbelicious

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The Tech in the top image, if you weren't putting them into a silo (what's the reason for that by the way?) and just had conveyors and filters you could filter out things to separate silos however you want.
... uhm, here i only did this to have each filtered result nicely viewable in a silo, just for the showing purpose here!

You have all the tools already to achieve what you need. If you need a slightly larger tech to accommodate it, that's part of the trade off.
...well, i see the point, and i agree ^^!
With introducing the Pacemaker you really made the "problem" smaller, this one boosts the fuel filtering so hard,
that its not a problem anymore to wait (the now maybe 5 seconds) for it to be finished !!

Great :)! Thx for reminding me of this block :D
 
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Zed

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This is actually exactly what I don't wanna have to do, cuz it takes a lot of space (which is what i mean with "Make my Tech smaller") AND time, since i gotta wait for all
those fuel chunks to be filtered first, before i can drop all others.
Thats what i mean with 1 single step: from a single silo!

I wanna be able to filter out all fuel chunks AND drop all others off at the same time, with only 1 silo,
so my tech stays nicely small and compact! ... and i can't do that with the current filter options.

See the filtering result of this filter setup (given a mix of everything):


Without having attached the "unrefined" and "refined" filters (bottom), the chunks (now landed there) would have
landed up in the "all" filter, which is actually what i wanna drop off simultaneously to filtering fuel chunks.

In this setup, the middle line conveyor pushed only 1 chunk onto the silo each turn,
which keeps the filter result yet ok here! ...But imagine i got 3 lines:
3 chunks passed onto the silo each turn, only 1 can be filtered per turn by each filter .
passing in 2 fuel chunks would lead into 1 being filtered by "fuel", but one being dropped off by "all".
That's 50:50 ... not really desirable, or is it?

Have a thought about it ;)!

Greetings!

Seeing as I have similar thoughts regarding factory optimization I will spend some time trying to create a factory filter setup with the presently-available conveyor filter options to address these topics this week
Not Quite certain this is what you were thinking of @Babbelicious but here is a sorting system which seems to address your sorting concerns depicted above.

A photo of the entire setup including basic gso factory components.



Where the sorting magic happens:



Tech is attached below. Let me know what you think.
 

Attachments

Mr-Vagabond

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I was trying to do a mobile TS ( and I did it ) but I have note that when you are not anchored, the ressource chunk behave like they did before the crafting update ( the are "solid" ) is this straight or is this a Bug ?
 

Zed

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Dec 23, 2016
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I was trying to do a mobile TS ( and I did it ) but I have note that when you are not anchored, the ressource chunk behave like they did before the crafting update ( the are "solid" ) is this straight or is this a Bug ?
The resource chunk will behave as solid when on a receiver pad (the block that pulls resources from resource pads such as scotty HC) last I checked the behavior; otherwise they should not trigger any collisions unless exposed to gravity (rolling on the ground / stuck between the wheels of your tech)

If this is the intended behavior or not I as a fellow player cannot say.
 

tomo_cjt

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Aug 14, 2014
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Filters also still have that weird behavior with missing some things every now and then (unless you double or triple up on each filter which takes up a ton of space btw) which a silo can remedy and not take up more space/travel time an overflow line would take to add in.
This is a bug that we're hopefully going to have fixed soonish.

I'd like the rotations to be fixed to be more intelligent or in order.
Yup, something we'll be looking at, along with keeping the rotation of a block that was rotated in the air (we actually do this, but it doesn't appear like it - a gun facing upwards on the right side of the tech and a gun facing upwards on the front actually have different orientations)

I was trying to do a mobile TS ( and I did it ) but I have note that when you are not anchored, the ressource chunk behave like they did before the crafting update ( the are "solid" ) is this straight or is this a Bug ?
Yup, currently anchored techs are the only ones with the physics optimisations - mobile techs use physics for moving and updating their resource chunks.

Hopefully that clears some more up :)