Increase Tech Size Limits

Yay or nay?

  • Yay

    Votes: 12 85.7%
  • Nay

    Votes: 2 14.3%

  • Total voters
    14

Traveel

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2017
822
666
495
I'm aware that a tech can only be 64x64x64 blocks, but the only reason I could find is performance. Now, in my opinion, if a person is willing to construct a massive tech, they know their computer might struggle, but why would you prevent players from doing this? Right now I'm working on a fleet of battleships and right now I'm working on the flagship, but due to size restrictions, the flagship won't be nearly as large as I'd like. Regardless, I think that size limits are pointless, for if a player wants a tech to be big, they'll know it'll strain their computer, but that's a tradeoff they're willing to make.
 

Traveel

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2017
822
666
495
This would be where you figure out you can apply carpentry joins to your multi-Techs...

Basic key & socket stuff really. ...
The issue is that I don't want this it to be a multi-tech. Moreover, you're leaving it to the AI to control the other part. You can't have the other part contribute any movement components that'd be on it as well when you're moving. Plus, there are enormous disadvantages to multi-techs.
 

Saelem Black

Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy
Aug 25, 2018
586
2,318
505
It's a volumetric problem, so while you perceive your tech as increasing in length, you're demanding much more than that from your computer's processor. Terratech calculates the physics of every block individually, so a 64x64x64 tech made of GSO 1-blocks is calculating the complete physics of over 260,000 blocks, which is already incredibly intense on a CPU. Increasing it to, say 70x70x70 increases that number to 343,000... for only 6 units longer in length.

Part of my job in the real world is doing computational analysis on physics problems (I'm a scientist), and and in most programs which calculate physics, the time it takes to solve (which would be refresh rate for TerraTech) is a square factor to the number of calculations the program is trying to perform (and TerraTech is not doing one calculation per block. I'd bet it's closer to 10 per block.)

All this means that moving the max tech size from 64 to 70 (which isn't much) means the possibility of cutting your refresh rate to non-functional levels. Like 1 frame every few seconds.
 

Traveel

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2017
822
666
495
It's a volumetric problem, so while you perceive your tech as increasing in length, you're demanding much more than that from your computer's processor. Terratech calculates the physics of every block individually, so a 64x64x64 tech made of GSO 1-blocks is calculating the complete physics of over 260,000 blocks, which is already incredibly intense on a CPU. Increasing it to, say 70x70x70 increases that number to 343,000... for only 6 units longer in length.

Part of my job in the real world is doing computational analysis on physics problems (I'm a scientist), and and in most programs which calculate physics, the time it takes to solve (which would be refresh rate for TerraTech) is a square factor to the number of calculations the program is trying to perform (and TerraTech is not doing one calculation per block. I'd bet it's closer to 10 per block.)

All this means that moving the max tech size from 64 to 70 (which isn't much) means the possibility of cutting your refresh rate to non-functional levels. Like 1 frame every few seconds.
A few things:
A. that's assuming all blocks in that all 70x70x70 is used.
B. So what? If a player wants to do it, then let them go for it. Just put a warning.
C. There's nothing stopping them from making a multi-tech and straining their computer anyway.


D. Why can't they, instead of doing calculations per block, just group together blocks and instead count it as 1 block? Or block count doesn't matter, but volume occupied.
 
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Exund

Fancy Modder
Why can't they, instead of doing calculations per block, just group together blocks and instead count it as 1 block? Or block count doesn't matter, but volume occupied.
Not possible as each block can be different in terms of what code it actually has attached to it

Also I tried to increase the limit multiple times (doing some perhaps dirty changes) but it failed horribly multiple times so the game seems very linked to that 64 blocks limit
 
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Amtheminer

Well-Known Member
Mar 4, 2020
53
46
51
Not possible as each block can be different in terms of what code it actually has attached to it

Also I tried to increase the limit multiple times (doing some perhaps dirty changes) but it failed horribly multiple times so the game seems very linked to that 64 blocks limit
So its hard-coded?
 

Traveel

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2017
822
666
495
Also I tried to increase the limit multiple times (doing some perhaps dirty changes) but it failed horribly multiple times so the game seems very linked to that 64 blocks limit
Maybe @Adriano or the devs could shine more light on this?
 

Matt

PAYLOAD STUDIOS
Jul 23, 2018
803
2,600
505
@Saelem Black and @Exund have pretty much covered it.

We had to have a limit at some point and while we are allowed a lot of freedom in how 'stable' our game can be on a platform like Steam, we still need to make sure the game is as stable as possible. Therefore adding a warning that going over the build limit will incur performance issues just isn't an option.

Also, it's not just as simple as removing it or increasing it. As @Exund mentioned, a lot of different systems rely on that build limit so the work that would go into it all those systems wouldn't be worth the effort for an increase in 5-6 block limit length, to be honest.

We're pretty happy with how big the build limit is right now. You can still build some impressive Techs in 64x64x64.
 

Traveel

Well-Known Member
Sep 14, 2017
822
666
495
@Saelem Black and @Exund have pretty much covered it.

We had to have a limit at some point and while we are allowed a lot of freedom in how 'stable' our game can be on a platform like Steam, we still need to make sure the game is as stable as possible. Therefore adding a warning that going over the build limit will incur performance issues just isn't an option.

Also, it's not just as simple as removing it or increasing it. As @Exund mentioned, a lot of different systems rely on that build limit so the work that would go into it all those systems wouldn't be worth the effort for an increase in 5-6 block limit length, to be honest.

We're pretty happy with how big the build limit is right now. You can still build some impressive Techs in 64x64x64.
I still don't understand, however, that if stability is an issue, why allow multi-techs that still have the same performance-breaking issues as colossal techs?

I do understand the technical difficulty associated with it, so I'll relinquish the request, but I'm still unclear about the 'stability' issues. However, should it someday be feasible, the altogether removal of the build limit would be nice.
 

Shpick

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
17
9
110
i am a year late, but if anyone knows, there's this game called Starmade, you can literally build 1000x1000x1000 block hyperspeed ships, however that game uses voxels, maybe there could be a mechanic where if the tech is reaching above 15x size, its blocks become voxels?
 

mt418

Active Member
Jan 23, 2021
22
0
39
my question is, why does every block need to be individually tracked? why not just track large groups of the same block and assume its just one block with higher mass?
 

Shpick

Well-Known Member
Jun 30, 2020
17
9
110
ye, thats how its done in starmade, but then again, they use voxels unlike terratech where its entities... i don't know...
 

Warning220

Defence enthusiast, Battle ship expert
Dec 9, 2018
113
162
450
25
there are ways they could increase the size limit without too much of a performance impact but the problem is most of them would require an entire rework of the game just to implement them.
 
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