I Know How to Fix The Entire Game! (Most of it, anyway)

Should ammo be added?

  • Nope

  • Yep

  • Yeah but your way is horrible


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n2galactic

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#1
Title, but more specifically combat balancing. The problem in this game is that the most effective vehicles are literally piles of guns with no armor. To understand how to fix this, we must investigate why that *wouldn't* work realistically. The answer is ammunition. To have a real tank that is covered in guns would be a logistical issue to get ammo to all of them, a storage issue to have that much ammo lying around, an explosive hazard, and be expensive to supply. Applying the concept to Terra Tech is quite simple.

Guns should require ammo to be manually loaded or supplied via conveyors. That ammo is explosive in storage and while loaded, (so guns are an explosion hazard if placed too close to one another.) The ammo can be purchased cheaply at trade stations or made cheaply with a specialized (portable) fabricator. All guns would have their own ammo, so a ZK-74 LMG would require a "30x12mm GSO Magazine" and a Pip MG would need a "44x10mm Venture Magazine." Perhaps there could be different magazine sizes, with the larger ones being more expensive per shot. Ammo material prices would be something like this: 30x12mm GSO Magazine - One Plumbia, or 400x23mm Hawkeye Drum - 4 Titania, 1 Ignian, and 8 Carbius. This would allow missiles to be balanced without a DPS nerf since they could be super expensive. (You wouldn't go around nuking those buggies with your cruise missiles if you knew they cost so much.)

I'm sure you're concerned about how ammo might affect the early game. "How would you get ammo in the first ten minutes?" "Where do you get those refined materials to make this stuff?" "Would you make the fancy fabricator available before the normal one?" Allow me to explain. A small amount of 12mm ammo would come with your starter tech, and you could perhaps loot more off of dead techs if you're careful about not hitting it. If you run out, you can always use your drill. Once you get to a trade station, you'll be able to rely on those for supply. I think the ammo fabricator should be obtained prior to the normal fabricator for encouraging its use. I'm on the fence about whether or not you would need refined material to make bottom-teir ammo. Unrefined requirements might be a bit overpowered for making ammo on the go, but refined might be problematic for early game availability. Eh, whatever.

I'm sure you're wondering about lasers. They should cost ammo too. You might have a "12Jx1W GSO Laser Capacitor" for the wide gauge laser coil. The (W)attage would imply the damage and power use of the laser while the (J)oules would imply it's capacity, so the above-described capacitor would have 12 shots, and a "24Jx3W GSO Laser Capacitor" (for the narrow gauge laser coil) would have 8 shots.

Fin

I could imagine I've left out some great deal of detail in this suggestion so I'm definitely open to questions.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#3
Well, I think it would be cool to see some end game weapon using resources, like a reticule research delivery canon that can be turned sideways to deal damage based on the value of the resource fired out...

But other than that, probably best the bread and butter weapons have magical reloading.
 

Sokolov

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#4
As the devs said, this won't happen anytime soon,most likely won't happen at all. I really like your idea,and I've made a similar proposal some time ago thouhg. Moreover, your concept seems to be very deep, with a lot of detail.
 
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Lyons

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#5
I think it would be better if they made it so ammo boxes had infinite ammo but you had to have them right next to guns. Make them expensive and not super explosive likes fuel but a tiny bit and there you go. Would make you have to actually think about your tech layout but not have it so every five minutes you have to spend thousands of currency on ammo.
 

n2galactic

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#6
the devs have already said that ammo is not going to be added as it will reduce the enjoyment of the game, so NO
It totally doesn't reduce the enjoyment of the game that literally everything that causes an explosion obliterates everything on contact. It totally doesn't reduce the enjoyment of the game that you can launch a cruise missile every 4 seconds per launcher with no cost at all ever. This game is totally not broken and in need of serious weapon rebalancing that I don't see you providing ideas for.
 
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Saelem Black

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#7
Yeah, hard pass on this. Your suggestion involves a mandatory level of complexity which is not suitable for many players. Take a game like Pokemon - the breeding and EV systems allows incredible sophistication to power-game and customize your team ad nauseam, but your average non-competitive player (or ten year old) doesn't have to learn all that to have fun. In Terratech, the crafting system is entirely optional. It offers advantages to players who want to use it, but you don't need it by any means to play. Your ammo suggestion, on the other hand, would require every player, regardless of play style, to endure that complexity.

Honestly, I'm not totally sure I understand your motivation for ammo, "The best techs are just covered in guns with no armor". Does that mean you're having trouble fighting this kind of tech? Or you're bored fighting in endgame campaign? Or are you talking about multiplayer? There are solutions already in place for each of these problems, but ultimately Terratech is about creativity across a diversity of types of play. I personally tend to spend more time in R&D mode than anything else experimenting with movement, and I would not find an ammo system enjoyable.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#8
if they made it so ammo boxes had infinite ammo but you had to have them right next to guns.
Sounds perfect for some future TT-mod... I think this is more along the lines of "From the Depths" (I'm yet to play it), in that it uses a modicum more realism to make builds more technically involved.

TerraTech is closer to playing with basic Lego, except that you don't have to imagine your creation driving about and pew-pew-ing.

Neither is superior; the player bases for each are a little different (TerraTech aiming to be more accessible) and diversity of gaming mechanics is to be embraced.:)

All of the above posts are valid feedback that the devs may well take them under consideration as they make decisions.:) Maybe we'll see more complex weapon systems mechanics in later corporations, easy players into more involved build strategies as they progress through, who knows...
 

Lord Zarnox

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#9
TerraTech is closer to playing with basic Lego, except that you don't have to imagine your creation driving about and pew-pew-ing.
There is an SCP object (can't remember the number, there's literally thousands of them) which is a box of Lego which behaves like a real version of whatever it is built as. A kid made a fully functional tank with it, complete with internal mechanism, and it started shooting things on its own.
 
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#10
There is an SCP object (can't remember the number, there's literally thousands of them) which iss a box of Lego which behaves like a real version of whatever I is built as. A kid made a fully functional tank with it, complete with internal mechanism, and it started shooting things on its own.
SCP-387
Sorry for the off topic post.
 

_Kaasblokje_

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#11
Honestly I think adding ammo boxes would indeed ruin the fun for many players and will add an unneeded amount of extra complexity to the game.

It would also limit player creativity.
I won't go deeper into this because others like @Saelem Black already explained this.

Honestly I feel like there are plenty of options the devs could take before deciding that they should redo the entire weapon system... :thonking:
In my opinion the main 2 things that are problematic in combat are these two:

1. The missile system
Of course this one is quite overpowered in the eyes of most people, and they are usually correct.
All missiles outrange enemy detection radius, and this ofcourse means that players can use missiles to kill enemies without any risk.

This doesn't always mean that missiles are extremely overpowered though, when a new player uses missiles they often tend to place them everywhere they can, when players do this their techs can easily be destroyed from a chain reaction as soon as just a single missile is destroyed. (basically the same thing as with batteries)

Ofcourse, because newer players often mess up with missile placement or other players prefer to play fair and stay within enemy tech detection radius doesn't immediately mean missiles are balanced weapons, as said before, the main reason missiles are usually overpowered is because they can outrange enemy detection.

Here are a few ways devs can fix missiles:

1. Decrease missile damage/ blast radius / reload speed
Honestly I'd say this is probably the worst way to "fix" missiles, even if damage is reduced, people only have to shoot for a longer time to kill an enemy tech.
(P.s. this seems to have happened to the Venture Cluster Missile Launcher sometime in the past, this is honestly one of the coolest weapons ingame but the damage it does is just so abysmally small it's usually not really worth using it)

2. Decrease missile range
This one is probably the easiest way to nerf missiles, but this would create a few issues, mainly with players using flying techs, weapons like the cruise missiles are quite often the most commonly used weapons on flying techs, mainly because no other weapons are this easy to use on flying techs and also because flying techs don't really have the option to use non-missile based weapons because all other weapons simply lack the range or targeting ability the missiles have.

3. Increase enemy targeting range.
As most of us know, the enemy AI in this game isn't really that great, improving enemy AI is probably the best way to fix missiles and a lot of other issues in the game which are PvE related.
This would also be the most likely way the devs in the future would/could fix missiles, but ofcourse it would also be the hardest option by far to implement.

If enemies could detect players from further away, lets say they would have the same detection range as most missiles can fly, missile using players would still risk being harmed by enemies when using missiles, and flying techs can keep their weapons this way.

Ofcourse doing this also brings a few downsides:
- Players have less moments of peace in the game because they will be attacked more frequently by enemies
Devs could fix this by making enemies spawn further away from the player so it wouldn't be too much of a problem I guess,
wait no, would this actually even be an issue? it might even be a good thing.

When players are more often attacked ingame, the game might become a bit harder, quite a lot of people think the game is quite easy right now and this could fix it.
Also, this encourages players to build more turrets. As far as I know, quite a lot of players don't really bother building turrets ingame,
mainly because they often aren't really needed because enemy techs don't really attack bases all that often. (I'm not saying no one ever uses turrets btw, I'm only saying people should be encouraged to build turrets more often (also, don't forget that turret targeting range also is increased by improving the AI))

Also, players who use flying techs in campain mode usually dominate enemies because enemy techs simply cannot target flying techs most of the time.
If targeting range is increased, players using flying techs would be encouraged to use some armor for once and using flying techs wouldn't just be an "ez win strategy"

tl;dr Increasing the enemy detection/targeting range (or whatever it's called) would fix missiles and a lot of other issues ingame

Oof, the full thing was too long, gotta post it as 2 different comments
 

_Kaasblokje_

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#12
Now lets switch to the second thing in PvE that I think should be changed, you guessed it, it's the Hawkeye Mk3 Battleship Cannon!
This weapon is honestly one of my favorite weapons, but I must say, its pretty overpowered, the way it is right now kinda makes it the perfect weapon for a gunwall, it has a high amount of damage and health,

I won't go super deep into detail in this one like I did previously with the missile system lol

I'll now list some possible nerfs for the Hawkeye Mk3 Battleship Cannon:

1. Reduce the damage / reload speed
Again, this is probably the easiest way to nerf the battleship cannon, nerfing this weapon this way wouldn't be a terrible solution but it also wouldn't be the greatest either, most people expect that the battleship cannon does an enormous amount of damage compared to other weapons, which is true but it isn't even that much actually, it does 3000 damage while the GSO gigaton cannon does 2500 damage for example, I think the main reason why the battleship cannons is so strong is because of it's massive blast radius, which brings us to our next point.

2. Reduce the blast radius
Because blast radius is probably the main point of strength for the battleship cannon, should we nerf it? my awnser for that would be "maybe?"
Reducing the massive blast radius of the battleship cannon would make it just another cannon turret I guess, ofcourse it would do a massive amount of damage but there are better ways to nerf this cannon.

3. Reduce the amount attachment points
People probably won't like this one (including me), but another way to nerf this weapon is by reducing the amount of attachment points on the battleship cannon (remove the 4 on top, and the 4 on bottom), this way people can't just build entire walls made out of these cannons.

4. Reduce the health, increase the mass and possibly make them explode upon destruction.
Possibly the best but also the least expected nerf: reduce the health of the battleship cannon.
The reason why I'm suggesting this is because believe it or not, the battleship cannon is pretty tanky, the thing is nearly a piece of armor itself.
The hawkeye battleship cannon has 5500 health total, the cannon takes in 12 blocks of space, this gives it 458.33 health per block space.
For comparison, a regular 1x1 hawkeye block has 400 health, this means it has more health than hawkeye blocks.

It also weighs less than a regular hawkeye block! the cannon has a mass of 16, which gives it a mass of 1.33 per block, a regular hawkeye block for comparison has 1.5 mass.
Because it has so much health and doesn't even weigh that much, this weapon is basically perfect for building entire walls out of itself.
And that's why I think nerfing the cannon's health and increasing it's weight would probably be the best way to nerf the cannons and still keep the users happy.

If the devs really want to nerf this weapon a lot, the cannons should explode upon destruction, currently the battleship cannon just breaks when destroyed, making it explode upon destruction like the cruisemissiles for example would encourage players to place the battleship cannons in a more organized way.
I think something like this should be added to the game, but I do think that the explosion should be small and wouldn't create a chain reaction when just one or 2 cannons are destroyed. In other words, the explosion harms other nearby battleship cannons (when used in a gunwall layout for example) but not enough to create a full on chain reaction made of battleship cannons.

tl;dr
Adding detonation upon destruction and increasing the battleship cannon's weight and decreasing it's health would create some sort of risk-reward type weapon and would encourage players to place their battleship cannons in a more organized way.

Time to wrap this post up because I already spent more than 2 hours typing this post hehe.
I wanted to say even more but for the sake of my sanity I had to stop lol
If you agreed with this post consider leaving a like to maybe pull dev attention or something.
New ideas and feedback is always welcome.
 
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Soviet_Samuelson

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#16
Care to explain how you would program this into the game?
Every surface block (besides guns) would contribute to regeneration of ammo. Every weapon on the tech will reduce the speed of ammo generation. Every block in total will contribute to max ammo. Guns and lazers would use less ammo, while cannons and missiles use a lot more.
 
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Lyons

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#18
I'll take that

ArmorBlock {
//other code
tech.AmmoRegen++;
}

GunBlock {
//other code
tech.AmmoRegen--;
}
But why? What about unarmored vehicles? DO I have to make giant techs with tons of armor now?