Crafting Update Rules need tweaking

Do you like/support those suggestions (choose all you like)

  • I support all suggestions made

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • I support suggestion 1

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • I support suggestion 2

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • I support suggestion 3

    Votes: 2 50.0%
  • I support suggestion 4

    Votes: 3 75.0%
  • I support suggestion 5

    Votes: 1 25.0%
  • I support suggestion 6

    Votes: 3 75.0%

  • Total voters
    4

Chrii_the_Vieh

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2015
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Germland Institute in Scotmany
Hi Terratechnicians,

I found the time to play around with the new crafting on the weekend.
First of all I think it is awesome to have those options now.
I esspecially love those new filter-menus.

This is what I build from the new blocks to throughoutly test the system:
NewBaseV8.png

Some of those new rules caused some trouble though:

1. medium GSO-silos takes mixed resources
This one is not working too good.
It causes main problems for crafting with the fabricator, as only resources from one single spot out of the silo can be picked (the downmost spot which is connected with a conveyor to the fabricator). Also, in my design (as in many others I suppose) you either have to build widely around those silos or get resource mixing (you can see this in the unrefined luxite silo on the picture above).
Possible fix: Fabricators should be able to "order" resource-chunks from every possition in a connected silo.
Additional fix: Please make the medium GSO-silo resource specific again.
Best fix: Give us a silo menue to choose between first resource only or unspecific resource uptake

2. intelligent conveyors
I really like how those conveyors work now, but some issues are left over:
Up-down conveyors do not decide a direction when connected to a alternator/filter.
Up-dpwn conveyor direction can't be changed by right click if not at least one more conveyor is attachd to the block.
Possible fix: Somehow implement the option to give/change direction in a up-down conveyor

3. alternator conveyors or multi-exit conveyors
This one is a though one. In my build, you might wittness, that the "raw-resource" line is connected to a refinery and the raw-silo with an alternator (as this is the only option of a multi-side conveyor that we have at the moment). The system gets clogged with raw resources instead of refining the chunks after the raw-silo is full.
Possible fix: Alternators have to forward resources to other options only, if one of the exits is clogged.
Alternate fix: introduce a multi-exit conveyor block, which radomly decides the direction it forwards the block each X units of time.

4. connecting multiple conveyor-lines
There is a lack of option if more than one conveyor-line has to be connected to other lines.
I think we need a multi-intake one output conveyor-block (a reverse alternator-conveyor).
Possible fix: Introduce this much needed block please.

5. corner conveyor block
As conveyors are intelligent now, we don't have the option to force a line to take corners some time.
To build efficient in confined spaces, a corner-only conveyor would be awesome.
Possible fix: Introduce a corner-only (like a 90° filter) block.
Alternate fix: give us a conveyor menu to "override" the automatic direction decision intelligent conveyors do choose now.

6. SCU to scrapper dominance
At the moment, both SCUs and scrapper do autocollect blocks.
As it seems to me, SCUs dominate scrappers right now, which is good imho.
Similar to the scrap-magnets, we need an on-off (active-inactive) option for other blocks.
Possible fix: Please introduce an on-off option for SCUs, scrappers, scrap-magnets, receivers, (shields), (repair bubbles), ...
(I would love you for that, even more than I do now ;) :p ;) )

That might be all for now, I am sure I found more issues, but I can't remeber.
I hope that you find the time to play around with the base and test my suggestions.
And... I would love to get feedback from you on this.
 

Lost Ninja

Well-Known Member
Jul 17, 2015
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Yorkshire Dales under a rock.
I would like to see all silos have the same filter menu as the filter block.
Totally agree with this one, would make systems much easier to build.

Here's my few additions:
1)Filter option to exclude/only include crafting routes. That is if I have a long conveyor route with the input at one side and the fabricator at the other I'd like to be able to create a shortcut for things that have been requested by the fabs. Or to filter things that haven't been requested into refineries.

2)Fabs that have a large order of raw materials pickup those raw material too slowly. If a Fab is requesting 15-20 items which arrive via a conveyor system none of these items should go past, not too much of an issue in a short system but with larger systems making resources loop again can make each item crafting take a considerable amount of time.

3)When requesting items some of which need refining currently all refineries won't accept anything else until the item is produced from the fab. Even though refineries get a recipe tooltip showing which one is going to be used and what for. Once the system has decided how many refineries are needed, by all means prevent those refineries from accepting new work until the fab finished that job given but don't prevent those refineries that aren't being used from doing their jobs.

4)When a recipe is selected to be built, it would be nice if the recipe screen didn't automatically close. (Optional maybe.)

5)Blocks being unlocked by crafting should be unlocked automatically once the item has been crafted not when it is stored/used.

6)Tooltip recipe display either needs to be larger always or when you mouse over the fab needs to enlarge. Playing at 1920x1080 I can barely read the numbers.

edit to add:

7)The game really needs some way to store large amounts of resources in a low lag solution. My PC is not terribly bad (AMD 1050t x6 @ 2.5Gh) yet even a small setup with stored resources rapidly slows my framerate to almost unacceptable levels (I mention my CPU as reducing my graphics options to a minimum doesn't help much, though that being said my GPU while not brilliant isn't that bad either (Nvidia 790 GTX IIRC)).
 
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Jamie

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Sep 16, 2014
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Possible fix: Fabricators should be able to "order" resource-chunks from every possition in a connected silo.
This should work in latest version.
Up-down conveyors do not decide a direction when connected to a alternator/filter.
Good spot. We'll get this fixed.
The system gets clogged with raw resources instead of refining the chunks after the raw-silo is full.
Interesting. Would you expect the Alternator to switch direction every heartbeat? Or for it to inherently 'know' that the direction it is looking to push to is blocked, so it should switch?
There is a lack of option if more than one conveyor-line has to be connected to other lines.
I'm confused. What's stopping you from doing this now?
Possible fix: Introduce a corner-only (like a 90° filter) block.
Can you send me a Tech with an explanation of how it would work better if you had a corner conveyor please? DMing me is fine.
Possible fix: Please introduce an on-off option for SCUs, scrappers, scrap-magnets, receivers, (shields), (repair bubbles)
We may do this at some point - but I think it's good for players to have to build around these limitations at the moment.
1)Filter option to exclude/only include crafting routes.
Gosh. This is pretty advanced...and there we were thinking a Filter anything block with it's own menu and UI functionality was complex enough :p
2)Fabs that have a large order of raw materials pickup those raw material too slowly
This is a known issue. Will be fixed in the not-too-distant future (shortly after 0.7.1).
3)When requesting items some of which need refining currently all refineries won't accept anything else until the item is produced from the fab.
This was considered when we were designing the new system. We decided that we didn't want to make Refineries too smart as we felt it would prohibit creative building from the player.
4)When a recipe is selected to be built, it would be nice if the recipe screen didn't automatically close. (Optional maybe.)
We thought it was quite nice to see your base begin to work after selecting a recipe (by closing the menu). What do other people think about this?
5)Blocks being unlocked by crafting should be unlocked automatically once the item has been crafted not when it is stored/used.
Good point. We'll look into this.
6)Tooltip recipe display either needs to be larger always or when you mouse over the fab needs to enlarge. Playing at 1920x1080 I can barely read the numbers.
This is something we'll likely get around to at some point :) Most of the UI sizing/visibility needs some love.
stored resources rapidly slows my framerate
We can look into ways of making this less intense.
 

Chrii_the_Vieh

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2015
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Germland Institute in Scotmany
Thanks for the intense answers Jamie.
Here are some more answers from my side:

Chrii_the_Vieh said:
The system gets clogged with raw resources instead of refining the chunks after the raw-silo is full.
Interesting. Would you expect the Alternator to switch direction every heartbeat? Or for it to inherently 'know' that the direction it is looking to push to is blocked, so it should switch?
Both options might be possible. If I am concerned, I'd go for change every heartbeat, in a way that a randomizer would do. That way the programing is less and the effect can be used for other applications as well.

Chrii_the_Vieh said:
There is a lack of option if more than one conveyor-line has to be connected to other lines.
I'm confused. What's stopping you from doing this now?
I was talking about connecting multiple lines, which is near to impossible right now in complex systems.
To simplify my point:
Sit1.png Sit2.png Sit3.png
In Sit1 three lines are going to feed one output, if I put a conveyor in the middle, Sit2 happens.
Now I have to rebuild to get Sit3.
And even then, I am fixed to one straight conveyorline.
If I ever want to change direction, or do so by accident, chaos is the result.
A simple conveyor which takes from three sides and forwards to the fouth side solves this issue.

... (picture limit)...
 
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Chrii_the_Vieh

Well-Known Member
Oct 26, 2015
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...
Chrii_the_Vieh said:
Possible fix: Introduce a corner-only (like a 90° filter) block.
Can you send me a Tech with an explanation of how it would work better if you had a corner conveyor please? DMing me is fine.
Only true in confined spaces like here:
Example1.png
The red block should feed the Deliverycannon-line from the left silo. And, yes I do need filters in the deliverycannon-line, as I don't want the silo to get fed from the deliverycannon-line.
I know that there are many build-arounds, but all of them require massive amounts of space and a huge number of conveyors in complex systems.

Chrii_the_Vieh said:
Possible fix: Please introduce an on-off option for SCUs, scrappers, scrap-magnets, receivers, (shields), (repair bubbles)
We may do this at some point - but I think it's good for players to have to build around these limitations at the moment.
Please show me a working build-around for the scrapmagnet, SCU or scrappers and I will agree.
I couldn't do any myself (which was not overly complicated or involved placing or replacing blocks while operating the system) and have not seen anyone use those blocks a lot, which is partially due to this issue (discussed many times in live-stream-chat) or scrap-magnet thread here in the forum.
Please give us the on/off option.

Thanks for considering my suggestions. <3