Advanced targeting computer (Laser targeting block implementation?)

Which idea do you like the most?

  • Laser targeting block implementation (because it has no functions yet)

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Computer block for the hawkeye (because it's a military corporation)

    Votes: 1 16.7%
  • Make it a feature for the legion cabs/weapons (because it's a very smart AI)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Reticule research computer, just for lasers. (Only the true genius can invent this(?)!)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Venture computer (because of the fast turrets and close combat gameplay style)

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Each corp gets it's own version with unique properties (Except GC), good example in #15 post

    Votes: 4 66.7%

  • Total voters
    6

XJetfireX

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#1
Just a simple idea for hawkeye corp: computer which allows you shots leading, making your guns more effective against moving targets.

(So if the enemy is moving, your weapons will aim not directly him, but the place where he will be when projectiles will get him.) (Of course calculation of this place may vary depending on the projectile velocity)
 
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XJetfireX

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#2
Found out that you can select targets just by using MMB. (Yeah, kinda late, but better than never :D)
So, how about giving deflection shooting feature to the hawkeye laser targeting block and making it late-game?
 

XJetfireX

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#3
How i see implementation of this feature:
1) Finding enemy's position and calculating trajectory to him, like always
1563473616491.png
2) Then, applying a correction to this trajectory based on the velocity vector:
1563473812082.png
 

XJetfireX

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#6
And here goes the math part (2d version):
1563478887872.png
EnemyFinalPos equations:
for X: X=Xinit+Vx*t
for Y: Y=Yinit+Vy*t
t - time, Vx and Vy - velocity vector comp

Same equations for the projectile's Pos. Final X and Y are same for both the projectile and enemy.
Here's the solution for system of equations:
1563478197254.png
(v = Vx, u = Vy)
If i didn't make any mistakes here, we can get the FinalPosition coordinates now:
Xfin=Vx*t
Yfin=Vy*t
So, we got the coords: (-0.2474499016;7.501017226)
1563478838084.png
 
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XJetfireX

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#9
Weird..never once heard my buddy use this term and he was a total military fanboy and actually went to artillery school.
Well, i'm not an expert in that specific thing, so i'll just edit Thread's name to make it more understandable for people =)

Named it "Shots leading computer". Does it sound okay?
 
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Captain Load

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#11
Well, i'm not an expert in that specific thing, so i'll just edit Thread's name to make it more understandable for people =)

Named it "Shots leading computer". Does it sound okay?
I'd recommend either Advanced Targeting Computer or Tracking Enhancement Computer. I'm going to assume you're only thinking of guns and other unguided weapons here. For this block to do the job it will need to adjust one or more of the following weapon properties:

* Increase the aiming speed of turrets.
* Increase the allowed fire point deviation on turreted ballistic and fixed direct-fire weapons (essentially their "aim assist' strength).
* Increase the muzzle velocity of direct-fire weapons.

There are number of potential issues. Even if it only affects HE weapons this enhancement could further unbalance the game if everyone starts using mainly big HE guns. Would this computer only boost turreted weapons or also work for fixed indirect-fire ones like most of the mortars? Fixed indirect weapons (those that don't fire straight at targets) rely on varying degrees of tracking to work. I don't think there are even any mortars left that lack tracking ability. If those fixed indirect weapons were enhanced it would mean they'd get even better tracking ability. Frankly I kind of think HE needs this..their mortars are pretty inaccurate compared to the ol' GSO Six-Pack, but if you had a tech that was just covered with heavy mortars it could become another "Megaton mountain". You don't need that many fast-aiming guns to counter a small, quick tech so heavy guns tend to dominate every encounter that's not already been decided by long-range missiles.

The next question is how much work these changes might require. Boosting the aiming speed of big heavy turrets doesn't seem like a huge ordeal to me..they won't look silly as long as that boost is no more than 20% or so. This means that it will probably will be necessary to increase fire point deviations when a tracking computer is active. That change, unlike turret aim speed, might well add some visual wonkiness that will detract from immersion. Picture every turret acting like the fixed rail guns when they fire. The STUD lasers actually have a movable focusing point, but not the big HE railguns..their shots can deviate a good 25 degrees coming out of the barrel. It drives me kind of bonkers but without that ability they would never hit anything that wasn't directly in front of them (and that was the case not so long ago, LOL). So this would be a delicate balancing act and, TBH, one I'm not sure is possible to achieve. Sidenote: Hey, Payload, maybe a sheath for the fixed railguns and a barrel that moves inside it STUD-style?

That leaves one other simple adjustment the devs can employ: boosting the speed that a projectile comes out of the barrel. I have long advocated a slight boost to the speed of the starting direct-fire weapons such as COIL Lasers. Logically these weapons would be meant primiarily to take out fast targets but their shots are very slow. Even a moderately quick, medium-sized tech can dance around them. It might even be possible for the devs to use variable muzzle velocities in some way. I could imagine a block that that has three settings: standard mode, assault mode and siege mode. Standard mode would be the default; assault mode would increase the muzzle velocities of your weapons somewhat and siege mode would slow them down. This would allow you to tweak your guns to be better at hitting moving targets or shooting over obstacles. Turrets would adjust their vertical aiming automatically and this is probably already how they work.
 
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XJetfireX

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#12
I'd recommend either Advanced Targeting Computer or Tracking Enhancement Computer. I'm going to assume you're only thinking of guns and other unguided weapons here. For this block to do the job it will need to adjust one or more of the following weapon properties:

* Increase the aiming speed of turrets.
* Increase the allowed fire point deviation on turreted ballistic and fixed direct-fire weapons (essentially their "aim assist' strength).
* Increase the muzzle velocity of direct-fire weapons.

There are number of potential issues. Even if it only affects HE weapons this enhancement could further unbalance the game if everyone starts using mainly big HE guns. Would this computer only boost turreted weapons or also work for fixed indirect-fire ones like most of the mortars? Fixed indirect weapons (those that don't fire straight at targets) rely on varying degrees of tracking to work. I don't think there are even any mortars left that lack tracking ability. If those fixed indirect weapons were enhanced it would mean they'd get even better tracking ability. Frankly I kind of think HE needs this..their mortars are pretty inaccurate compared to the ol' GSO Six-Pack, but if you had a tech that was just covered with heavy mortars it could become another "Megaton mountain". You don't need that many fast-aiming guns to counter a small, quick tech so heavy guns tend to dominate every encounter that's not already been decided by long-range missiles.

The next question is how much work these changes might require. Boosting the aiming speed of big heavy turrets doesn't seem like a huge ordeal to me..they won't look silly as long as that boost is no more than 20% or so. This means that it will probably will be necessary to increase fire point deviations when a tracking computer is active. That change, unlike turret aim speed, might well add some visual wonkiness that will detract from immersion. Picture every turret acting like the fixed rail guns when they fire. The STUD lasers actually have a movable focusing point, but not the big HE railguns..their shots can deviate a good 25 degrees coming out of the barrel. It drives me kind of bonkers but without that ability they would never hit anything that wasn't directly in front of them (and that was the case not so long ago, LOL). So this would be a delicate balancing act and, TBH, one I'm not sure is possible to achieve. Sidenote: Hey, Payload, maybe a sheath for the fixed railguns and a barrel that moves inside it STUD-style?

That leaves one other simple adjustment the devs can employ: boosting the speed that a projectile comes out of the barrel. I have long advocated a slight boost to the speed of the starting direct-fire weapons such as CLAW Lasers. Logically these weapons would be meant primiarily to take out fast targets but their shots are very slow. Even a moderately quick, medium-sized tech can dance around them. It might even be possible for the devs to use variable muzzle velocities in some way. I could imagine a block that that has three settings: standard mode, assault mode and siege mode. Standard mode would be the default; assault mode would increase the muzzle velocities of your weapons somewhat and siege mode would slow them down. This would allow you to tweak your guns to be better at hitting moving targets or shooting over obstacles. Turrets would adjust their vertical aiming automatically and this is probably already how they work.
Well, i think one of the ways to counter the risk of unbalanced heavy weapon systems is to not increase their aiming speed/muzzle velocities, so you have a chance to get a far target, but it won't help you in close encounters unless you have fast-rotating turrets like venture ones. And i didn't mean to only enable this feature for HE weapons.
 

XJetfireX

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#13
Also, if to make this feature only work for laser-type weapons, the player will need to choose between splash damage (ballistic cannons) and accurate but pinpoint damage (any kind of lasers, including the class-d one) (class-d laser cannon is not so useful now, battleship cannon can destroy techs quicker just because of it's splash damage)
But that implementation makes less sense to me, because i also wanted this to work with ballistic weapons. As i said, venture fast- rotating turrets needs this badly, because they're not so useful in close combat - they just can't aim properly to get the quick targets in close combats.... Hmm, what about implementing such a computer for venture then? :D
 
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Captain Load

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#15
Also, if to make this feature only work for laser-type weapons, the player will need to choose between splash damage (ballistic cannons) and accurate but pinpoint damage (any kind of lasers, including the class-d one) (class-d laser cannon is not so useful now, battleship cannon can destroy techs quicker just because of it's splash damage)
But that implementation makes less sense to me, because i also wanted this to work with ballistic weapons. As i said, venture fast- rotating turrets needs this badly, because they're not so useful in close combat - they just can't aim properly to get the quick targets in close combats.... Hmm, what about implementing such a computer for venture then? :D
Venture's weapons have been improved dramatically in the last two years although they've also been given a couple of duds as well. Shotguns have always been worthless and adding turreted ones has only mitigated that a little. The fixed rifles are only useful for dogfighting in planes or antigravs. Venture's biggest advantage right now is the Hailfire which outrages and out-aims everything else in its class. It has reasonable muzzle velocity too and you can cram a lot of them into a relatively small area. If it also had target prediction it would dominate the medium weapon category. It almost does now.

Regarding the possibility of only boosting the heaviest guns with target prediction: that would actually be the easiest form to implement because the farther you are from the target the easier it becomes to calculate things like transversal velocity (which you may already know judging by the graphs you posted). However, distance also means you don't need to adjust aim as much in order to to lead targets so its really the short-range weapons that will benefit the most as things currently stand. Since most of them have low muzzle velocities their the ones that really have trouble hitting fast, nearby targets. I think a combo of increased shot velocity and target prediction would be the answer. It makes no sense to me that we have this Star Trek level of tech with self-powered blocks, fabricators, antigravity and wormholes, but the small guns are like toys. However, their also cheap so maybe you get what you pay for. If every faction were to get targeting assistance then I'd recommend having different computer blocks for each corp and each tech only being able to equip one targeting block at a time. Examples:

GSO "Comrade" Targeting Computer: once attached to a tech it provides predictive aim assist to the next four unguided weapons attached. If any of those weapons are removed and then UNDO is used to reattach the weapons the targeting assistance will remain active. If an assisted weapon is removed and not replaced via UNDO then the assistance will be applied to newly attached weapons up to the capacity of the computer. If the computer itself is removed all weapons will lose assistance and the computer will lose track of them.

Venture "Skeet" Motion Compensator: when attached to a tech it projects a small bubble that can be toggled between visible and transparent. All unguided weapons within this bubble receive aim assist after being within the bubble for at least five seconds and all indirect guided weapons recieve a slight tracking boost.

Hawkeye Advanced Targeting Enhancement (HATE): when switched on it provides predictive targeting ability to all unguided weapons. The unit consumes a small amount of power (maybe equal to half what a GSO shield bubble uses) and each turret supported will increase the power drain by half that amount. This can add up if many weapons are attached.

Legion Command and Control Unit: provides predictive aim assistance to unguided weapons carried by nearby drones (i.e. techs controlled by AI blocks) as long as the drones are within range of a tech being commanded via a Legion cab and equipped with a Legion C&C block. The distance over which the C&C link can function should probably not exceed the max range of a Megaton Cannon. If the cab-controlled tech has no friendly drones within range of its C&C unit then the block will slightly increase the maximum targeting range of the tech's own weapons (this simulates the C&C computer providing better sensor data processing).


BTW, Hawkeye already has a laser targeting block.
 
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XJetfireX

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#16
Venture's weapons have been improved dramatically in the last two years although they've also been given a couple of duds as well. Shotguns have always been worthless and adding turreted ones has only mitigated that a little. The fixed rifles are only useful for dogfighting in planes or antigravs. Venture's biggest advantage right now is the Hailfire which outrages and out-aims everything else in its class. It has reasonable muzzle velocity too and you can cram a lot of them into a relatively small area. If it also had target prediction it would dominate the medium weapon category.

Regarding the possibility of only boosting the heaviest guns with target prediction: that would actually be the easiest form to implement because the farther you are from the target the easier it becomes to calculate things like transversal velocity (which you may already know judging by the graphs you posted). However, distance also means you don't need to adjust aim as much in order to to lead targets so its really the short-range weapons that will benefit the most as things currently stand. Since most of them have low muzzle velocities their the ones that really have trouble hitting fast, nearby targets. I think a combo of increased shot velocity and target prediction would be the answer. It makes no sense to me that we have this Star Trek level of tech with self-powered blocks, fabricators, antigravity and wormholes, but the small guns are like toys. However, their also cheap so maybe you get what you pay for. If every faction were to get targeting assistance then I'd recommend having different computer blocks for each corp and each tech only being able to equip one targeting block at a time. Examples:

GSO "Comrade" Targeting Computer: once attached to a tech it provides predictive aim assist to the next four unguided weapons attached. If any of those weapons are removed and then UNDO is used the reattach the weapons the targeting assistance will remain active. If an assisted weapon is removed and not replaced via UNDO then the assistance will be applied to newly attached weapons up to the capacity of the computer. If the computer itself is removed all weapons will lose assistance and the computer will lose track of them.

Venture "Skeet" Motion Compensator: when attached to a tech it projects a small bubble that can be toggled between visible and transparent. All weapons within this bubble receive aim assist after being within the bubble for at least five seconds.

Hawkeye Advanced Targeting Enhancement (HATE): when switched on it provides predictive targeting ability to all unguided weapons. Each turret supported will result in a small amount of power drain (maybe equal to 30% of a GSO shield bubble's consumption), but this can add up if many weapons are attached.


BTW, Hawkeye already has a laser targeting block.
I definitely like your way of thinking =).
And also, nice ideas for the computers and their names!
Added another poll option, referring to your post.
 
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Captain Load

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#17
I just remembered a somewhat sleazy way to make weapons more precise - you can just give them tracking. Of course anyone who's watched a thrown briefcase hunt someone down like a possessed boomerang knows how ridiculous this looks. Also, I modified my post about the possible types of targeting computers.
 
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