[1.3.2.1] Feedback - New missions (Rook Creek Bridge, Crown Top Hill Fort)

ZeroGravitas

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#1
I'm not sure there's any point suggesting changes to new content these days, seeing as it's locked in for stable release by the time we see it on the unstable branch. But here's some opinions, anyway (in case they help guide future content). I think this is largely @Greg's department(?).


Praise:

(1) I was impressed with how seamlessly the new set-piece terrain blends in with the procedurally generated. Couldn't tell where it joins at all, initially (maybe see some seam indications in the creek aerial shot, there in retrospect). So as a technology demonstrator, I think these missions are a great success.

Crown Top: Cropper2019-09-25-14-12-02-2300630.jpg Creek: Cropper2019-09-25-14-28-12-7869730.jpg


(2) The structures also fit in OK and I didn't notice any obvious glitchiness with them. They are unprecedented in TerraTech, though, so feel a bit out of context (kinda like Warhammer 40K table-top scenery on a dining table, ish). But with the addition of more missions like this (earlier on) and maybe some random artefacts and locations, I think it will feel more natural.


(3) For me, the Creek was 1.7km from the trade station and hill was 4.9km. I liked the sense of scale and rewarding the player for having good transport techs on hand. I suspect that many players will be less enthused about a 5km commute, particularly those who generally trundle about everywhere in a big, overpowered franken-tech.


Criticisms/issues:

(4) Crown Top was too easy for a level 3 HE mission (with such big production values). The flies posed no threat provided you have a shield and the spider could easily be taken out by adding a couple of late game weapons (e.g. HE missiles) to a GSO level 3 tech, or whatever. It's kind of anti-clamatic (as with most other missions).

Spider: Cropper2019-09-25-14-12-27-3150420 crop.jpg Fight: Cropper2019-09-25-14-16-18-7296638 crop.jpg

Maybe the big wingnut GC/HE tech would have been more of a threat if I were in a land based tech (as most players will be). It has nothing against my ranged missiles attacks (from the air), though. But this mission had good character, I think. Can you get it as GC level 3 only, without a HE licence? (Given all the level 3 HE weapons on wingnut that you can get.)

Cropper2019-09-25-14-26-52-4588497 crop.jpg

(5) For all the production values, these missions only add an extra 10-15 minutes of entertainment to the campaign. So I'm crossing my fingers that the same technologies will be used, in future, to integrate new game play mechanics with more open-ended potential (like battle arenas, randomly occurring rare sites to find, etc).

(6) Need to change the avatar for the message pop-ups.

(7) I didn't seem to get the mandibles or one of the eyes as a reward (are they just supposed to drop from the spider?).

(8) The yellow location marker remained on the hill/bridge after completing the missions. [Edit: oh, is this deliberate, so you can find it again...? Interesting.]
 
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zanzistar

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#3
Hey,

Thanks for the feedback on these missions. I'll keep an eye on this thread, so please post any more thoughts you have.

I'm glad you're enjoying them, yes, both of these missions initially started as prototypes to test using custom terrain in missions and we made fast enough progress that we decided to polish them up and put them in. The plan is to build more of them, featuring re-occurring characters and locations.

The spawning distances are a requirement of how we stitch the terrain into the world, we didn't want to overwrite part of the world that players have already visited, so we only spawn these mission types on unexplored and unloaded sections of the world once they are accepted. We did this to avoid issues with modifying the world after players have already visited it (do we remove anything they might have wanted to keep? Can one mission area overwrite another etc.) and also to avoid having to pre-spawn all mission locations when the world is generated for the first time to avoid forcing the player to stay near the mission areas or face having to travel indeterminate distances to reach missions as they are given, also pre-spawning locations at world generation would mean they could not appear in old save games, you'd have to start a new game each time to get them. Anyway, we arrived at this solution which means that sometimes they do spawn far away, but it's better than some of the alternatives.

That's a fair comment about the difficulty of the Spider King. I've heard this from others too and I've given him a wireless charger now, so he is a bit tougher. I've also heard he can be difficult for some players, so I'll wait for a bigger sample size before I shift him again. As I say, the mission was built as a quick prototype initially, so yeah it is shorter than I'd have liked it to be and I can see how it appears a bit confusing as a grand opening to more in-depth missions that ends so abruptly. But once more are added, it will just be in a big mix of other missions and not stand out so much.

Yes. Wing-nut can one-shot a fair amount of ground Techs, I'm ok with players taking the flight advantage as not as many players fly in the game as I would like anyway. If you're strong enough to kill Wing-nut without dropping him off the bridge (thus retaining more of his Blocks), then you either deserve those weapons or may have already unlocked them.

Yes, they do not have a huge run-time at the moment, as I say, that's more a factor of them coming from prototypes. We wanted some contained missions that exhibit a few new features to use as tests. We'll stack more on top of that in the stable update after this one coming that should last a bit longer.

The last three points about mandibles, markers and portraits are bugs, they should be fixed in the next build.

Thanks again!
 
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xboi_one

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#4
"(4) Crown Top was too easy for a level 3 HE mission (with such big production values). The flies posed no threat provided you have a shield and the spider could easily be taken out by adding a couple of late game weapons (e.g. HE missiles) to a GSO level 3 tech, or whatever. It's kind of anti-clamatic (as with most other missions)."

id have to dissagree on the this, they seem to be especially potent against air techs and if you dont have any quick firing weapons any smaller tech is gonna have alot of struggle killing all the flies
 

Rafs

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#5
I remember some threads asking for more missions around the time I got here.
I'm very happy to see these coming to the game, with the advent of special landmarks that shape the terrain and create new environments, with a story to tell and a new option for base building. This adds a lot of personality to the game, it's really amazing.
Another factor I like a lot is having Boss Battles that put your techs to test and may act as milestone of progression, a rewarding experience long known in games. I hope to see more of these (specially in Legion missions).
I can't wait to see which other missions we are getting on the future, be it storyline or repeatable missions.

Initially I thought the new missions generated too far away, but the explanation convinced me, so no complaints here.
The battles weren't that epic but I can blame my own progression on the game, so I can't really feedback much... The spider king looks rather small tho, but for a mini boss it's okay I guess (it does have minions to help).

The structures are great. The temple is a great piece, I wonder how long it took to shape it! The Legion hints on the walls were a great touch!
It does act differently than other ruins though, you can load snapshots inside of the walls and can't anchor on them (might be a temporary bug and might be fixed next time, just worth noting).
The bridge is neat too, with the pillars and all, although it could be more dramatic (larger creek, hollowed bottom like a real bridge where you can pass below). Maybe add another bridge, long, connecting two mountain tops? That would be epic!
I'd like to see deposits as reward, too, like a boss guarding a large cluster of crystals. Other rewards can be found as ideas on my Reshaping The World thread (well, almost everything there could count as suggestions for the new missions' environment).

The radar marks left by the missions were neat, but not everyone is getting them; could be a bug.
And it mixes with other base marks so one can still get lost if they go too far and there's another base nearer than the Landmarks (maybe it's time for a new radar marking icon?).

I think that's all. Thanks for the response from Zanzistar, it's always great to know what the devs are doing and how they thought the new features :D
 

Faffywaffy

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#7
I beat both bosses with a ground tech under 250k just to see how cheap I could go.

I agree with @ZeroGravitas in that they don't add much gameplay value. This has always been a problem with TerraTech. It's one of the main reasons I think good multiplayer is the next logical step in this game's development. In competitive modes, the building aspect would add tons of variety to the combat and it would keep players entertained for a long time.
 
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Zonko

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#8
It's a good start. Congrats.
They do integrate well.

Comments: the bridge needs to bridge a wider gap. Otherwise it's really pointless. Make it 3 times wider and the bridge 3x longer.

Suggestion: Make the Spider King like a super big turret with lots of shields and armor, and solars.
A real problem to dig out. because what you get out of it, needs to be paid for in smashed techs: An invulnerable fortress.
It's cool and all, but it should be hard fought and won.
 

harpo99999

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#10
my cent of feedback for the creek mission,
was able to defeat the troll(as trolls always hang around bridges) by plenty of shields & repairs and lots of charge, then enter the bridge, then backup drawing the troll past the line on the bridge entry, troll had managed to fire twice before crumbling
 

Green4Gaming

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#11
You could give the spider king two spider companions that have wheels on their legs to move around. They shouldn't be armed with Hawkeye weapons though, maybe some Better Future stuff. An interesting idea would also be to have them respawn after some time when you kill them.
 
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harpo99999

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#12
and the cent for the crown top hill fort,, the techs in it are very soft for the mid-game battle harvester that I am currently using (btw has also defeated the one invader that I have had (btw levels gso 4, geo max, hawk 3, ven not started ,bf not started)) the only weakness of the mid battle harvester is due to limited battery (approx 16 geo batts 32 gso bats two mobile gso generators and 16 gso solars(but not usable as the anchour (geocorp roatating) keeps breaking on the ground in the middle of the tech) so just charging from fuel resources in the collectors
 

burger1113

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#13
Yes, I love the custom terrains and it makes a huge difference to the otherwise somewhat monotonous feel of the missions.
However, I did get the mission while I was barely into gso lvl4, and got a small melee vehicle stuck in between the enemy and "donation device", which caused the enemy to eventually fall off the bridge lol
So now I've got battleship cannons at HE level 1. Not complaining tho! :D
 

burger1113

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#14
and the cent for the crown top hill fort,, the techs in it are very soft for the mid-game battle harvester that I am currently using (btw has also defeated the one invader that I have had (btw levels gso 4, geo max, hawk 3, ven not started ,bf not started)) the only weakness of the mid battle harvester is due to limited battery (approx 16 geo batts 32 gso bats two mobile gso generators and 16 gso solars(but not usable as the anchour (geocorp roatating) keeps breaking on the ground in the middle of the tech) so just charging from fuel resources in the collectors
Hmm I wouldn't exactly call HE3 "midgame" tho? Since you have access to the currently-engame weapons and all.
 
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harpo99999

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#15
I call it mid-game as I do NOT have venture or butter future, and yes the tech dies have four battleships six of the HE chainguns two geo megas 32 3 pounders approx 60 gso lasers (not stud the first one) and approx 100 ak47s and geo melee (drills and two saws)
 

Zonko

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#16
and the cent for the crown top hill fort,, the techs in it are very soft for the mid-game battle harvester that I am currently using (btw has also defeated the one invader that I have had (btw levels gso 4, geo max, hawk 3, ven not started ,bf not started)) the only weakness of the mid battle harvester is due to limited battery (approx 16 geo batts 32 gso bats two mobile gso generators and 16 gso solars(but not usable as the anchour (geocorp roatating) keeps breaking on the ground in the middle of the tech) so just charging from fuel resources in the collectors
Uh, i got them with HE 0
and Venture 1
Talk about a weapons boost.
 

Saelem Black

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#17
Played them both today for the first time, I'm mid-to-late game on my current playthrough. I was running a medium-sized ground tank with 8x battleship cannons and a few other assorted weapons. It's a tech I usually use do bully-type missions in campaign before I've built up any mega-techs. My first volley insta-popped both the spider king and the bridge troll just with explosive bleed-through. One shot - that's it.

I mean, 8 big cannons is not welterweight, but anyone with a decent crafting base could build something similar. Honestly, until something is done about explosive splash damage (shields should really block splash damage), both these missions will be trivial for a tech with a few cannons. No amount of shields/repairs will save them from the splash damage.

Balancing would be tricky, though. The situation we should not get in is the converse - loading the bosses down with cannons and creating a sudden-death sort of situation with the player. I mean, I'll say it again, shields really should block splash. Theirs and ours, but given that that isn't a likely change, perhaps redesign them to move their cabs further back to safer locations.
 
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#18
Played them both today for the first time, I'm mid-to-late game on my current playthrough. I was running a medium-sized ground tank with 8x battleship cannons and a few other assorted weapons. It's a tech I usually use do bully-type missions in campaign before I've built up any mega-techs. My first volley insta-popped both the spider king and the bridge troll just with explosive bleed-through. One shot - that's it.

I mean, 8 big cannons is not welterweight, but anyone with a decent crafting base could build something similar. Honestly, until something is done about explosive splash damage (shields should really block splash damage), both these missions will be trivial for a tech with a few cannons. No amount of shields/repairs will save them from the splash damage.

Balancing would be tricky, though. The situation we should not get in is the converse - loading the bosses down with cannons and creating a sudden-death sort of situation with the player. I mean, I'll say it again, shields really should block splash. Theirs and ours, but given that that isn't a likely change, perhaps redesign them to move their cabs further back to safer locations.
* BS"s is a lot of cannon. Those are endgame weapons. No wonder you had no trouble.
 

Saelem Black

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#19
* BS"s is a lot of cannon. Those are endgame weapons. No wonder you had no trouble.
Yeah, but you could do it with a megaton pyramid, too. The point is that explosive splash damage makes them trivial.

Also, while the HE battleship cannon is the most powerful cannon, it doesn't actually take much to get it if you use the crafting system. A Hawkeye license 2 and a GSO license 4 are all that's required to craft them en masse.