1.3.1.1 Update Thoughts!

burger1113

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#1
First, I want to thank the devs for another great update! Lots of positive things there.

-The hints are really well done lol love them
-Screen shake/chromatic aberration didn't seem AS bad as people were saying, but I really don't like them in games in general. Maybe if it's so subtle that we can barely feel it, I would consider having them.
-HE landing gear : such tiny little thing lol very well made but I don't know what size techs it would be suited well for. I can sense there is a bigger one coming up, though.
-Wheel speed buff FTW! Now my monster struck spins in place like a puppy on crack chasing its tail.
-Do I feel suspension travel tweaks on other wheels than specified as well? All good, but I wish there were dampers set properly so they would neither 1.bottom out so readily, nor 2.bounce up like a rubber ball.

Non-1.3.1.1-specific talk
-Currently, blocks like the generators and refineries can't be placed upside down nor even sideways. Tweak please?
-Having techs in Zero Gravity via the Antigravs makes them quite resistent to rotational force, as if it gets a passive gyro. I suppose this is intentional? It should be the other way around, no?
-I found that the GeoCorp Rockets eat far too much fuel for the thrust. I don't think I've seen anyone use them, likely for that reason.
-I was comparing the thrusters(rockets) across corps, and it seems venture can never top BF even on lighter techs. BF is mostly an endgame content and all, but that's just taken away venture's reason for existence, it seems.
-It looks like the helicopter blades now help with holding whichever angle it was left at after pitching/rolling, as if it's a passive gyro?? It's quite nice, but it also made the existing helis quite hard to turn. Maybe we could get it so it doesn't try to fight the tilt input as the Stabilizing Computer does for movement input? I feel the gyros should do the same(be turned off while there is control input).


Phew, I was thinking of posting standalone threads for some of these, but work is a bit hectic these days... Cheers!
 
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Rafs

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#2
At least going upside down or sideways is a feature of BF Refineries, but yeah generators and fabricators are locked (scrappers aren't).

I have a ranking of thrusters from my tests (shared on discord):

After extensive tests with an experimental tech with a 12 blocks space for propellers, in terms of 1-direction speed/space occupied, the ranking is that:

1. BF Small/Medium Ion Drive (119), Venture 1-Way (117), GSO Horn (117)
2. Venture Zero Propeller (113)
3. Venture 2-Way (109)
4. Hawkeye Exfil (doubled side) (106)
5. BF Small Adj. Thruster (100), Venture 5-Way (100)
6. BF Medium Adj. Thruster (95), Venture Pinwheel Propeller (96)
7. Hawkeye Exfil (single side) (93) 8. BF Large Adj. Thruster (89), GC Adj. Thruster (88), GSO Turbine Propeller (89)

Seraphim nose propeller and HE propeller didn't fit the 12 blocks used for comparing all the other blocks, each couple reaching 18 blocks in size, and both gave ~90mph, thus much less space efficient than all other blocks. A couple of BF Small Rotors reached the same speed at +100 power.
It surprises me how terrible are the largest adj. thrusters. If one wants decent 5-way coverage, it can go straight to HE Exfil, or smaller adj. thrusters.
When in need of a 2- way, one can use Zero propeller or the 2-way in compact spaces.
And for 1-way speed, there are three good options, with the GSO horn being also an angled 2-way, the best option for a fast tech that wants fast, powerful turning. this was tested in one direction only, you can assume that multi directional thrusters give that in multiple directions
hawkeye exfil is the best multi directional
venture zero is the best in two (front/rear)
gso is the best in angled directions, as well as in one direction alongside better future drives and venture 1 way
So Venture is pretty much equivalent to BF in many areas.

I agree with some other points you made, and some I didn't know lol just wanted to share these infos :)
 
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burger1113

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#3
At least going upside down or sideways is a feature of BF Refineries, but yeah generators and fabricators are locked (scrappers aren't).
Ï have a ranking of thrusters from my tests (shared on discord):
So Venture is pretty much equivalent to BF in many areas.I agree with some other points you made, and some I didn't know lol just wanted to share these infos :)
Oops! I meant thrusters as opposed to propellers, sorry I wasn't clear on the terminology. Hmm perhaps the adjustment "THRUSTER" is an inherently problematic name for that reason...?
Maybe the term in the control scheme should be the one to change to "rockets" or somethin, eh?

Nontheless, those are some juicy infos that I didn't know or wasn't sure about. Thanks!
And in TERMS of THRUSTERS as in "propellers", I think Venture should have an edge against other corps at least for the top speed, instead of being equal. Even if that's just a 20~30mph difference. Of course to balancing things, they should have less "torque" than other corps, limiting the performance to lighter techs.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#4
The hints are really well done lol love them
Yeah, they look good. It'd be cool to see a full list of them accessible somewhere, too.:)

-Screen shake/chromatic aberration didn't seem AS bad as people were saying[...]Maybe if it's so subtle that we can barely feel it, I would consider having them.
I think the subtlety is the worst problem - such things are maximally nauseating when they areborderline subliminal and you can't always quite put your finger on it. The brain thinks it's perceptions are being garbled by poisoning and tried to make you vomit. I *am* probably a lot more sensitive to this than many, but I think it will still affect a lot of people quite badly but mere irritate most others.

-HE landing gear : such tiny little thing, lol
Yeah, very cute, but not sure it's going to be very useable with big heavy HE blocks. The wheel tended to pass through the ground sometimes for me, it's so small. Hopefully be bigger ones too.:)

Wheel speed buff FTW!
I continued talking about this on the original suggestion thread. Maybe GC Big Boys too fast now. Monsters are OK again, back closer to what they used to be (I believe several wheels took a speed hit around the time of BF release). Still stop kind of abruptly though.

Do I feel suspension travel tweaks on other wheels than specified as well?
Not sure. Tracks still all see to have issues with saggy suspension and worst, many (e.g. new HE tracks) are unable to turn on the spot at all now (still).


I have a ranking of thrusters from my tests (shared on discord):
Not sure what your setup was, you got a pic/snap? And are the numbers in brackets their speed? (Maybe you could make that a proper forum post, of reference (e.g. in "community help and guides" section)?
 

Sdarks

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#5
-Having techs in Zero Gravity via the Antigravs makes them quite resistent to rotational force, as if it gets a passive gyro. I suppose this is intentional? It should be the other way around, no?
That's definitely not intended. ZeroG (the effect not the person) should actually almost completely remove angular/rotational drag. So that you get the cool "spinning around in space" effect despite still being within atmosphere. If you have a video or repro case I'm definitely interested in looking at it

Edit: Note - In reality there should be literally no change to rotational physics at all based on gravity if my physics is right. It's just more fun if you see an anti grav tech floating around like it's in space so I added that in intentionally
 
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burger1113

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#6
That's definitely not intended. ZeroG (the effect not the person) should actually almost completely remove angular/rotational drag. So that you get the cool "spinning around in space" effect despite still being within atmosphere. If you have a video or repro case I'm definitely interested in looking at it

Edit: Note - In reality there should be literally no change to rotational physics at all based on gravity if my physics is right. It's just more fun if you see an anti grav tech floating around like it's in space so I added that in intentionally
Hey, Sdarks! Sorry for the late response. Life got in the way lol
Here is a video that will show the extra resistance added.
**Note** The BF Rockets are LOUD... I think they need a tweak too.
It's a little scout antigrav I'm making, and you can see it turns VERY sluggishly after I charge the battery, and the AntiGrav engages.
I suppose you're right on that it shouldn't turn with much more or less difficulty, but that's not the case.
I removed the gyro and Stab. Computer from the tech for this test, so there shouldn't be any variables here.
 

Sdarks

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#7
Hey, Sdarks! Sorry for the late response. Life got in the way lol
Here is a video that will show the extra resistance added.
**Note** The BF Rockets are LOUD... I think they need a tweak too.
It's a little scout antigrav I'm making, and you can see it turns VERY sluggishly after I charge the battery, and the AntiGrav engages.
I suppose you're right on that it shouldn't turn with much more or less difficulty, but that's not the case.
I removed the gyro and Stab. Computer from the tech for this test, so there shouldn't be any variables here.
Thanks for the video! I've logged it as a bug, do you have a snapshot of that tech please? It looks like a good one to test with
 

Sdarks

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#9
The anti grav bug is now fixed for the next stable/unstable and here's an explanation copied from another thread:

What we do with anti gravity to get the cool spinning around forever in space effect (despite still being in atmosphere) is as you have less gravity we increase the part of angular drag that is dependant on airspeed and reduce the constant angular drag down to zero. That means that your tech will still slow down from high rotational speeds but will never come to a complete stop without outside forces (thrusters etc) giving you a more spacecraft like feel. The bug was that the airspeed dependant drag was set too high which meant that techs were slowing down too fast and it was opposing angular velocity too much. It also meant that it was essentially placing a top speed on angular velocity which was noticeably lower than without anti grav. This is now fixed and I've toned down the air speed dependant drag so that it should be more comparable to non anti grav now.

I've tested your techs and some others from the steam workshop and found that from what I could tell they all behave either the same or better now (better in the case of your techs).
 

burger1113

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#10
The anti grav bug is now fixed for the next stable/unstable and here's an explanation copied from another thread:

What we do with anti gravity to get the cool spinning around forever in space effect (despite still being in atmosphere) is as you have less gravity we increase the part of angular drag that is dependant on airspeed and reduce the constant angular drag down to zero. That means that your tech will still slow down from high rotational speeds but will never come to a complete stop without outside forces (thrusters etc) giving you a more spacecraft like feel. The bug was that the airspeed dependant drag was set too high which meant that techs were slowing down too fast and it was opposing angular velocity too much. It also meant that it was essentially placing a top speed on angular velocity which was noticeably lower than without anti grav. This is now fixed and I've toned down the air speed dependant drag so that it should be more comparable to non anti grav now.

I've tested your techs and some others from the steam workshop and found that from what I could tell they all behave either the same or better now (better in the case of your techs).
Oh yeah I realized the top speed limit problem before but forgot about it completely lol Good thing you noticed it.
Such a quick fix! Looking foward to seeing the change.