[1.1.0.1] Feedback - Build beam control changes (problems)

Prefered system?:

  • Old

    Votes: 13 72.2%
  • New (in 1.1.0.1)

    Votes: 1 5.6%
  • 3rd option (both are bad) - comment below...

    Votes: 4 22.2%

  • Total voters
    18

ZeroGravitas

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#1
OK, I'm not the only one having difficulties with this, but it looks like I'll have to be the negative Nancy kicking off a proper feedback thread on this, for a change... :rolleyes::(

In Build Beam, W & S now move the Tech forward and backwards relative to the direction that the Tech's cab is facing.
The old system (using controls relative to the camera view) certainly had it drawbacks - having to wizz the camera around all over the place to steer where you want to go. Which made it hard to see the alignment of techs - you'd want to be viewing from the side sometimes, ideally (e.g. positioning multi-tech turrets, etc).

The new system allows viewing from the side, because BB control is like driving a car, with forwards in the direction of tech's forwards direction.

Unfortunately this means you have to physically rotate the tech to change the direction of movement, so to simply line up techs adjacent to each other, you end up having to do parallel parking manoeuvrers! And if the position's not quite right, or the tech jiggles out of place, as always happens eventually (due to physics™️), then you have to go out and re-park all over...o_O

In addition, @Zorgomol points out that this makes it virtually impossible to place a cluster of auto-miners accurately. I'd not tried yet, but I can see that this is going to be hellish, given the number of minor tweaks needed to hit the exact right spot with a 4x cluster.
I get the feeling that the devs really do not care about crafter players or even think about them at all. This makes placing the widely used QuadMiner techs virtually impossible. Why bother at all urging people move around between biomes and when you also keep them stuck in place for ages looking after their autominers and resource block factories?

Also this makes rescuing big-wheeled techs that are stuck with a tree or a rock between the wheels on a side a lot more difficult since there's no way to do sideways movement in build beam any more. Definitely a change to the worse, IMO.
I *think* that the new system would be acceptable (or even superior?) if a "strafe" control pair were added to the BB controls too (e.g. Q and E). If this can't be done immediately, I'd politely request reverting this change, for now, please.
 
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Wassaup

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#2
The biggest problem is needing to be extreamly aware witch way the cab is looking. While it is obvious on vehicles and turrets, most bases and production building just have the cab "thrown on" (mine certainly do), so you're not sure whitch way it moves. I'd just stick with the old version.
 

zanzistar

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#3
Ok, we can add the strafe controls to Q and E, that's fine.

We changed it because the camera relative movement we had before seemed to confuse people. They would beam up and nudge forward expecting W to move their Tech forward (like outside of beam) and then have to adjust to new rules when they realised that it was now camera-relative.

Adding Q and E to strafe whilst in the beam is still in keeping with the normal controls.
 

Soviet_Samuelson

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#4
Ok, we can add the strafe controls to Q and E, that's fine.

We changed it because the camera relative movement we had before seemed to confuse people. They would beam up and nudge forward expecting W to move their Tech forward (like outside of beam) and then have to adjust to new rules when they realised that it was now camera-relative.

Adding Q and E to strafe whilst in the beam is still in keeping with the normal controls.
YES GOOD AMAZING
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#5
Ok, we can add the strafe controls to Q and E, that's fine.
Awesomesauce.:cool: I'm sure it'll still take some getting used to, for existing players, but I think that should cover most usage scenarios. e.g. also doing diagonal movements using combinations of these orthogonal controls, without having to rotate the tech.:)

(I'd come here to link this tweet from a Japanese player, too, but no need now.)


The biggest problem is needing to be extreamly aware witch way the cab is looking.
Hmm, yeah, that may take a bit of extra brain power. But once you've pressed [W], or whatever, that should give the game away, to see how it moves.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#6
Ok, we can add the strafe controls to Q and E, that's fine.
It looks like this is not going to make it in for the upcoming stable release, then? Pretty dissapointing that all players will be stuck with only the more awkward manoeuvring options (after highlighting this so early on)... :confused:

But how about spinning this into an even more augmented build beam system? Adding other control axes in addition to strafe!:D

Lift up/down would be the next most obvious. Only a very limited deflection above and below the natural BB resting point. Should probably spring slowly back to the resting height when no lift input applied. It could help a lot with multi-tech build, turret placement, etc.:cool:

Not sure about the usefulness of tilting, though. Probably overly complex by that point.
 
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DrShadox

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#9
i've vote Old.

Adding Q and E to strafe whilst in the beam is still in keeping with the normal controls.
In this case it will be perfect :) cuz yeha , only be able to go forward/backward and rotate is pretty painfull in many situation , so if it's possible to keep old control (even on "new" key) and have our new control systeme , both will be available so yeah , i think it's the good solution (if i've understand well).
 

Wassaup

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#11
So, we're stuck with this, huh? Okay, could we, at least, get the option to choose between the old and new system in the game itself? Have a toggle switch in the options menu for "tech-relative" and "camera-relative" build-beam. Or even better, add a hot-key, so we can switch on-the-fly according to the situation.

Actually, this highlights an underlining problem within the development of features. The devs put a lot of time and work into trying to find the "secret sauce" of mechanics, which is impossible. You cannot find a "one size fits all" solutions to our demands, no such thing exists. Instead, we should have the options to customize our experience. Don't have 3 pre-determined graphics setting, have real graphics-options in the menu! Don't have restricted control schemes, have fully re-bindable controls in the profiles (preferably with two slots for each input: one for keyboard, one for game-pad)! Don't try to guess the right level of mouse acceleration, zoom speed etc., let us adjust it!
As for the build-beam controls: it should have it's own control profile (just like the car-mode, or helicopter mode, we could have a build-beam mode) that we could set to our needs and the devs wouldn't have to alienate a large chunk of players or guess what kind of controls we would like.
 

Cowboy8887

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#13
So, I had to take a break from playing TT due to computer issues, and the last time I had played was before the control changes were made. Upon coming back to the game, I realized right off the bat that changes would be a major issue for me. As ZeroGravitas pointed out, I am one of the many people that love the quad miner setup. Even with the strafe controls, the extremely clunky manor in which you have to adjust the miners now is so painful I really don't want to mine at all anymore. I Have to say that the option put forth by DrShadox a few posts above would be the best thing that could happen at this point: a simple hotkey to switch between "camera-relative" and "tech-relative."

I have to caveat this by saying that in pretty much every other situation, the new controls are quite a bit more intuitive and make a lot more sense, but in the case of the auto-miners, it's just to painful. This will not stop me from playing the game, but it did make me want to rage quit after taking 20+ minutes (not really, but sure felt like it) to get a quad miner setup to work on an area I could have done it before in about 10 seconds.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#14
Even with the strafe controls, the extremely clunky manor in which you have to adjust the miners now is so painful
I've just had a go with this to double check (in creative mode, on flat terrain with an Erudite seam) and I'm not seeing an intrinsic problem.

It does take more thinking, if you decide to keep the tech orientation fixed and use a combination of strafe plus forwards/back to move diagonally. But with my basic auto-miner cluster it also seems fine to rotate the tech as you would previously have rotated the camera (the tech's centre of mass stays on the same spot).

Did you watch my placement guide previously, here in this video? It's actually easier than this, now, as you can load techs in on top of the seams directly (and get them pretty close to the optimal spot straight-off.

This new bug with Fabrication hanging is a big issue for auto-mining outposts, though (halting progress on bricking the resourse whenever you leave/reload an area).
 

Captain Load

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#15
I've yet to get all four miners to work, ever. I've spent HOURS on this and three is the best I can do.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#16
I've yet to get all four miners to work, ever. I've spent HOURS on this and three is the best I can do.
Heh, so it *was* you commenting on my YouTube just now, I wondered.:) Are you using the same exact miner tech configuration? And did you try different seam locations?

Like I say, I re-tried it myself in creative and found it no harder than before, although a little different, of course. Might be informative to see a fail video or even screenshot of the struggle.:)
 

Captain Load

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#17
Heh, so it *was* you commenting on my YouTube just now, I wondered.:) Are you using the same exact miner tech configuration? And did you try different seam locations?

Like I say, I re-tried it myself in creative and found it no harder than before, although a little different, of course. Might be informative to see a fail video or even screenshot of the struggle.:)
I watched a video about this a couple months ago (might have been yours, not sure) and tried and tried until I was blue in the face. One thing I didn't think to do was try it in R&D, but even in pretty flat desert I had no success. Also, I had to download that quad mining rig because I can't build it (can't get it to connect up correctly). Ironically, when they first released autominers I could pull off four mines pretty easily but at some point it changed.

Honestly, I'd kinda like to see the autominers changed to a simple "auto-attach to node" behavior. Higher level mines could have properties such as attach points, multiple drill heads, requirements for external power and so on.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#18
when they first released autominers I could pull off four mines pretty easily but at some point it changed.
You used to be able to easily intersect anchored blocks, so you could get them close, naturally. (Also, there only used to be, like 25 resources per seam when I first started playing in 0.7.5, heh.)
 

Captain Load

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#19
You used to be able to easily intersect anchored blocks, so you could get them close, naturally. (Also, there only used to be, like 25 resources per seam when I first started playing in 0.7.5, heh.)
Huh? I don't remember it ever having that few. I think in the beginning it was more like 50-60. I've still got my 0.60 build..I could find out I guess.