[1.0.2] Undocumented featurs/block changes

MrTwister

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#1
A number of things suddenly behave differently/became broken with the new stable:

1) GSO Megaton collision boxes suddenly changed and cannons which were perfectly able to fire over each other or next to each other (if placed in 1-block "stepped" configuration horizontally or vertically) through the entire series of previous releases no longer can do that.

Now projectiles from rear guns collide with the guns at the front - never was the case before.

20181222164416_1.jpg

20181222164423_1.jpg

2) Venture Monster Truck wheel severely nerfed - moves in straight line like it used to, but turning ability greatly reduced - change of trajectory immediately drops tech speed to 15-18pmh. And the tech in general feels extremely clunky to turn. Behaved very differently in all previous patches. Funny enough Titan wheel still behaves normally.

20181222164454_1.jpg

3) Hawkeye Tank Track - approximately the same as above - greatly reduced turning ability and huge drop of speed to any attempts to steer. Barely able to turn at all. Unlike the above not a recent changed - became nerfed some time afte 0.7.9 patch.

Probably more to come.
 

Lord Zarnox

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#2
One thing they could do to help steering is make the wheels axis all meet at a single point, rather than have them all turn to their maximum angle. This way, the innermost wheels are more aligned with their direction of motion. It won't make a huge difference, but it would still help. And it would look much more reasonable.
 

JAL

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#3
I agree about the Venture Monster Truck Wheels. I've constructed a number of techs using 8 Monster Truck Wheels and am experiencing the same thing. In addition there is also a noticeable reduction on their forward speed.

Something seems to also be occurring with the Venture Original Springer Wheels. Techs with 8 Springer Wheels that could turn very quickly in place turn very slow after the update. Again there is a loss of forward speed. :(
 

kae

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#4
Hey there Mr.Twister, thanks for letting us know about these changes.

Looks like someone changed the collision mesh for the Megaton cannon and the projectile is hitting it.

The wheel control system was refactored recently, so there may be issues with some wheels or configurations, i'll look into the VEN monster truck wheels and the HE tank treads.

Could you provide a snapshot where you believe the VEN Springer wheels are misbehaving please?

Thanks guys!
 

MrTwister

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#5
Hey there Mr.Twister, thanks for letting us know about these changes.

Looks like someone changed the collision mesh for the Megaton cannon and the projectile is hitting it.

The wheel control system was refactored recently, so there may be issues with some wheels or configurations, i'll look into the VEN monster truck wheels and the HE tank treads.

Could you provide a snapshot where you believe the VEN Springer wheels are misbehaving please?

Thanks guys!
Yeah I'll send an example with Springer a little later.

Another thing I'd suggest looking into is the turn speed of HE HG-1 Tank Turret.
A few patches ago it was fine, but after 0.7.9 its turn rate was nerfed so badly that even my biggest techs are turning 4-5 times faster than the turret is able to aim. This makes HG-1 an unfavourable choice, especially in the endgame as its barely usable.

I will send you a couple examples of that to see what I mean.
 

Soviet_Samuelson

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#6
Yeah I'll send an example with Springer a little later.

Another thing I'd suggest looking into is the turn speed of HE HG-1 Tank Turret.
A few patches ago it was fine, but after 0.7.9 its turn rate was nerfed so badly that even my biggest techs are turning 4-5 times faster than the turret is able to aim. This makes HG-1 an unfavourable choice, especially in the endgame as its barely usable.

I will send you a couple examples of that to see what I mean.
check out the gso cab plating, it's not letting the cab shoot!
 
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JAL

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#7
Here are two videos of the Springer Wheel behavior in version 1.0.2. I apologize I don't have any video from earlier versions for comparison.

video 1
 
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MrTwister

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#10
Just a gentle reminder, that most issues in this topic are still present and not yet addressed.

So far I noticed in unstable that Hawk tank threads have been revisited and turn better now.
However other issues - collision boxes, wheel acceleration and turning (Monster Truck, Springer especially, but this is in fact affecting all wheels collectively large Hawkeye and Geocorp wheels are really bad too), abysmal turret turn rates are still persisting.

Hoping for you guys to revisit them for the next stable or whenever time permits :)

Collision box of Megaton actually may have been fixed already, need to double-check, but Hawkeye Turrret HG1 collision box is still ugly and much worse than visual model geometry and blocking shells.

Let me know if need any examples still.
 
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A Friendly Tech

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#11
Yeah monster truck wheels are horrible now. There is no moving forward while turning and climbing ability is terrible. Haven't tried Hawkeye tracks yet.

Its pretty frustrating that now that we finally have a working anchor for large techs my go-to large tech wheels aren't fit for purpose.
 
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MrTwister

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#12
Yeah monster truck wheels are horrible now. There is no moving forward while turning and climbing ability is terrible. Haven't tried Hawkeye tracks yet.

Its pretty frustrating that now that we finally have a working anchor for large techs my go-to large tech wheels aren't fit for purpose.
It would be good if devs explained a little what were they trying to achieve by "wheel control refactoring". The results seem bad across the board for all wheeled techs. :(
 

A Friendly Tech

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#13
I hadn't notice the change until the other day. I go from GSO Little Trekker to GSO Dirt/Riser Wheels early game. I switch to GSO Bumper Wheels as soon as they're available and used to stay with them until late-ish game when I'd switch to Venture Monster Truck Wheels for the remainder. I guess whatever changes didn't affect bumper wheels enough to notice and with Better Future available to campaign mode now, I've found a new favorite mid-game wheel in BF Medium Side Halo Wheels. When I switched to monster truck wheels this time, the change was glaringly obvious.

Still, it seems awfully late in the game (no pun intended) to be messing around with a core mechanic like wheel behavior unless there was a really good reason. If there's a core mechanic that really needs help its crafting.
 

kae

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#14
Let me know if need any examples still.
I don't think you gave me any snapshot examples to begin with :(

We've investigated some of the techs on the steam workshop and some self built techs, but the problem isn't glaringly obvious. If you have any good example techs or videos which show the drastic change between versions I'd be happy to raise this issue with the rest of the team.

The collision issues regarding the Megaton cannon should be fixed, I'll also have a look at the HG1 cannon.

Cheers!
 
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MrTwister

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#16
I don't think you gave me any snapshot examples to begin with :(

We've investigated some of the techs on the steam workshop and some self built techs, but the problem isn't glaringly obvious. If you have any good example techs or videos which show the drastic change between versions I'd be happy to raise this issue with the rest of the team.

The collision issues regarding the Megaton cannon should be fixed, I'll also have a look at the HG1 cannon.

Cheers!
Hi Kae!

Sorry, should have posted the examples to begin with.
Test techs below, but first - method of testing:

1) Load up current version of the game
2) Load up the first tech in creative with no enemies (to be testing in proper environment)
3) Move forward in straight line, measure speed and take note.
4) While moving in straight line, start changing direction - take medium turn (not too tight, but relatively quick turn). Measure speed of the tech during the maneuver, take note. Take note of magnitude of speed drop after applying the keys to initiate turn.
5) Also apply a series of light turns left and right while moving straight at full speed. Note difference in speed between straight movement and turning speed, record.
6) Test all wheelsets in the same manner, you may alter techs to attach other types of wheels which are not included in the example techs.

7) Load up release version of the game, which is no longer available to us (1.0.0 release)
8) Repeate all of the above steps - loading test techs and speed measurements.
9) Notice the big difference in old behavior vs new.

Special notes:
Some wheels seem to be far less affected and some are severely affected.

All Geocorp Tracks, Hawkeye Tracks and Titan Wheels seem to be barely affected if at all - maybe use them as a control group to find whats wrong.
Some wheels are severely affected - Monster Truck wheels, Hawkeye Big Daddy, Hawkeye Warhorse, GSO Muddy Dog.
Some wheels would fall somewhere in the middle - affected to some degree, but not that bad: Geocorp Big Daddy, Venture Springer.

Feel free to also test the wheels I didn't test.

Techs below:

Wheeltest1.png
Wheeltest2.png
Wheeltest3.png
 
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kae

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#19
Awesome, thanks for the great examples.

Yeah I can quite easily see a loss in performance of these wheels from a 1.0 build when turning, the wheels go into 'turn on the spot' mode a bit too quickly, dropping the speed and making slight turns feel very clunky.

Cheers, I'll investigate further.
 
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MrTwister

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#20
Awesome, thanks for the great examples.

Yeah I can quite easily see a loss in performance of these wheels from a 1.0 build when turning, the wheels go into 'turn on the spot' mode a bit too quickly, dropping the speed and making slight turns feel very clunky.

Cheers, I'll investigate further.
Awesome, and thanks for actioning megaton meshes by the way, great sruff. Now only HG1 is left for mesh issues.