1.0.1.3 Was the Death of the Hoverbug. Bring Back the Hoverbug!

Discussion in 'TT Unstable Bugs' started by Legionite, Dec 5, 2018.

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Was the Hover Bug a valuable asset to Terra Tech's advanced side?

  1. YES!!! It cannot be replaced!

    78.6%
  2. Yes

    14.3%
  3. No

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. The recent additions replace the hover bug effectively

    7.1%
  5. The hover bug must be destroyed for all eternity

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Legionite

    Legionite Carrier Aircraft AI

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    Based on input from others on the Discord:
    The cruel update of 1.0.1.3 was tasked with assassinating the bug everyone knew and loved.


    It was tasked with replacing the hover bug in many fronts: The control switch, the lift effect, even the legacy name!

    The new controls scheme was to replace the hover bug's land controls while airborne, it simply lacks that automatic toggling ability it should have had. It should be introduced back in somehow.

    It would have been awesome to apply that control mode-switching functionality with the landing gears and their shifting wheel areas to make switching a more delayed system, but now that is no longer a possibility.



    The most recent working version of the hover bug (previous update 1.0.1.2) had vertical dampening, none of which the current thingies provide.
    This would have been handy for the new creations using the anti-grav, because it is far more stable with anti-grav than hover bug lift spam, but with the YWVS dead, now only the good old HaVCS can do the job.
    God knows how long that bug will last until it gets deleted as well.



    Many users have noticed that the hover bug is no longer working.
    Screen Shot 2018-12-04 at 2.15.00 PM.png
    You can't just codename this thing the 'Hover Bug', it is an IMPOSTER.
    An imposter that cannot meet the expectations of the original!
    It is intended that this "Linear Motion Engine" replace the Original Legendary Hover Bug and this change is for the worst as the Linear Motion Engine is pathetic with it's thrust output and will never be able to rotate shafts like the hover bug did.

    Wanted to make that merry-go round or Tech Ferris wheel?
    Nope. Linear Motion Engine can't do that.

    This means all old and future walkers are now DEAD.
    No more mechas. No more auto harvesters. No more launchers!
    This officially killed off all of the walkers. They doesn't even walk anymore!:(
    All the rotating ball contraptions are dead too. No rotations.

    Killing off the future generations of walkers by disabling the hover bug in newer saves eh?

    This Better Future is turning out to be a Badder Future for all other corporations too since they now lack a hover ship method.

    Let's take down this anti-hover bug notion to #BringBackTheHoverBug!


     
    #1 Legionite, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  2. Seth_Seth

    Seth_Seth HoverBug

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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

     
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  3. Mindlessmrawesome

    Mindlessmrawesome Well-Known Member

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    The hover bug can't ever truly be replaced because it allowed for interactions between two techs. You can't really replace that.

     
  4. Falchoin

    Falchoin Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention the linear motion engine is INCREDIBLY weak. It takes 5 of them to lift a single GSO cab with Better Future all axis gyro.

     
    #4 Falchoin, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  5. NotExactlyHero

    NotExactlyHero <custom_title_subtitle_[username]_display>

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    Who needs hovers when you have propellers ion thrusters?



    The block is useful in some cases, but make no mistake I'm not sticking up for it. The linear motion engine relies on other forms of propulsion, compared to the hover bug which just needed... hovers.

     

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  6. Legionite

    Legionite Carrier Aircraft AI

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    This also:
    The Hover Bug also doubles as a method to detect and interact with other Techs and resources to move on condition without human intervention.
    Can the "Linear Motion Engine" do any of that?

    NO!

    This update has singlehandedly made the dinosaurs EXTINCT:

    [​IMG]
    This dinosaur uses hover bug resource interaction, the hover bug axle drive, and the rotational Hoverbug foot thrust system!
    It also took out the Robo-raptor.
    Take that, Earth Destroying Meteor!


     
    #6 Legionite, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  7. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    I don't understand this. I'm seeing it working fine in Creative and R&D modes in old and new saves.

    @QuackDuck's Dire Wolf seems to work better than ever (for example), with the default "Car" scheme automatically gaining forwards/back cruising throttle controls (due to the HE rotors on the back). I added pitch, strafe and lift (up down) controls to this one:

    Dire Wolf CS.png

    So I'd like to [see] snapshots and saves that don't work as expected any more (it bay be down to other factors - of which there are many.


    But anyway, in terms of phasing out the hover-bug - yeah, the interactions with resources and other stuff have allowed for a lot of interesting and creative non-intended uses. It would hollow out the soul of the game to squish that kind of thing out. Make it far too prescriptive to have a block for everything - no thrill in following the instruction manual...

     
    #7 ZeroGravitas, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  8. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    I'll note that if you use a BF "Hover Power Controller" on a tech, set it to zero, or off, then remove the controller block, the hovers will still stay disabled. Which looks like a bug to me, @kae. (That's not how Pacemakers work, for example.) The state doesn't save to snapshot, though.

     
    #8 ZeroGravitas, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
  9. JimmyBlether

    JimmyBlether A Merry Axolotl

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    The hover bug must stay in the game for all eternity. Fixing it would break some, if not most of the communities' best creations, and it cannot be removed entirely.

    Though, the linear motor has a throttle that I think stays on if you set it.

     
  10. Jamie

    Jamie PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    Hey @Legionite ,

    We're gathering feedback on all this stuff - as we're very aware that you guys know the full extent of what the Hover Bug gave Tech builders better than we do. So help me gather some information here.

    Let me start by saying;
    1. We haven't fixed the Hover Bug in this build. It's still present, as you can see by @ZeroGravitas ' post.
    2. As we add huge functionality changes and/or fix bugs (like the Hover Bug) - yes, some old Techs will cease to work as intended. This is something we always take into consideration and try to avoid, but sometimes it is necessary to make upgrades to the system such as this one.
    3. Let's not forget - the Hover Bug is a BUG that needs to be fixed. We have set aside an entire wing of a new corporation just to allow Hover Bug functionality in a way that works as intended and with the rest of the game's systems.

    Now, help me gain some simple info on each of these problems - so that I can pass things on to the dev team to get them discussed.
    Would building a Tech designed to work this way (with the appropriate control scheme) work? Are you able to replicate land controls ("Car") in the air using Control Schemas and Steering Hovers?
    I'm a fan of this too. It's being discussed.
    Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by vertical dampening, how you were doing it and what it achieved please.
    Can we get a Tech that rotated it's shaft nicely in 1.0.1.2 - but cannot be rotated using Linear Motion Engines in 1.0.1.3 please. We can look at adjusting their thrust output.

     
  11. zanzistar

    zanzistar PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    As Jamie said, and as I said on the stream, we're not removing the hover bug until we've provided a legitimate alternative for all of its uses. It's still present in 1.0.1.3 and it will still be in many updates afterward too.

    Why would we? The hover bug enables some of the coolest builds in TT, why would we want to remove that? What we are trying to do is legitimise it to give everyone easier access to it.

    Please put the pitchforks down and enjoy the update.

     
  12. Legionite

    Legionite Carrier Aircraft AI

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    Going into my game after figuring out how to get in, I found out that the hover bug seems un-removed, but different in a weird way.
    It is currently unreliable now but it still exists.

    Others may still be having problems with the hover bug not working and should send bugged-bug reports about it.

    With the application of anti-gravity engines and the hover bug, I bring you the ultimate in airborne control!

    The Ultimate Chassis.png
    It should work most of the time.

     
  13. zanzistar

    zanzistar PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    We've not touched the hover bug. If you can give us more information about how it is different that would be appreciated.

     
  14. QuackDuck

    QuackDuck Duck

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    With the new hover control update in 1.0.1.2, hovers are able to dampen vertical velocity, so if you have a hover bugged tech, it would go up slower and fall slower at a constant rate (it feels like the hovers are resisting the change in height), unlike the old hover physics where if you have a hover bugged tech, it would go up normally, but would have a lower acceleration going downward.

    It's kind of hard to explain, so using the tech below and comparing it's rising and falling speeds in the stable and unstable branches should help with understanding what this vertical dampening is.
    All you need to do is hold Shift, watch how fast it goes up, then release Shift and watch how fast it falls. It should go up and down much slower in the unstable, that is vertical dampening in effect.

     

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  15. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Is there now a momentary hesitation when loading a hover-bug-ship tech (for example), before the hover force fully kicks in. Or is that my imagination or lack of familiarity that there's something different there?

     
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  16. QuackDuck

    QuackDuck Duck

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    Could be the new feature where hovers deactivate in build beam. Or maybe they start out in their off state when the tech is first loaded.

     
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  17. Legionite

    Legionite Carrier Aircraft AI

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    The Hover Bug is unreliable in this update as mentioned:
    Screen Shot 2018-12-05 at 8.03.45 AM.png
    It has been modified in some way as a result of this update and others don't have the hover bug with them anymore.

    I have found that it turns off in build beam and even randomly shuts off during normal operation.
    The switch can turn it back on but the random shut-off is very dangerous to airships at high altitude.


    This little flying AI used to pitch up and down under the power of the BF hovers, but it appears that AI pitching of hovers has been removed as of this update.
    Archemedes AI.png

    Hover bug can do vertical dampening (like the one posted in com core), which allows non-drifting airships to be a reality.
    The Hover Stabilization computer helps too, but it would be more useful if it tried to stay at a specific location, not just stop Tech momentum.
    A new Positional Stabilization Computer should be the alternative as the current Hover Stabilization Computer has potential applications for speed control.

    Removal of the hover bug would result in the end of both of these.

    Linear engines only apply thrust linearly, they rotate all fans, forwards and backwards in their intended direction and cannot be used for rotational applications.
    It would have also been handy if there was an alternate that could save an off-set default via UI and is responsive like the horizontal controls.


     
    #17 Legionite, Dec 5, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 5, 2018
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  18. QuackDuck

    QuackDuck Duck

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    From my (admittedly rather brief) experience with the update, I haven't had this issue, I tried saving an airship in the new update to see if control schemes saved to snapshots and it seemed to work perfectly fine.

     
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  19. Seth_Seth

    Seth_Seth HoverBug

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    So basically, the HB is now very unstable?
    wha

     
  20. Sdarks

    Sdarks PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    As the other devs have said we have done nothing to intentionally change or break the hover bug. If you can provide examples of techs that work on previous updates and don't work in the current update it makes it a lot easier for us to take a look at why. Videos of before/after along with a snapshot would be perfect, although a snapshot or save with a description helps too. Also any techs that you can't replace the hover bug with a linear motion engine on would be appreciated too, along with a description of why you can't replace it so we can see what functionality is missing.

     

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