1.0.1.3 Was the Death of the Hoverbug. Bring Back the Hoverbug!

Was the Hover Bug a valuable asset to Terra Tech's advanced side?

  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • The hover bug must be destroyed for all eternity

    Votes: 0 0.0%

  • Total voters
    15

Legionite

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#1
Based on input from others on the Discord:
The cruel update of 1.0.1.3 was tasked with assassinating the bug everyone knew and loved.


It was tasked with replacing the hover bug in many fronts: The control switch, the lift effect, even the legacy name!

The new controls scheme was to replace the hover bug's land controls while airborne, it simply lacks that automatic toggling ability it should have had. It should be introduced back in somehow.

It would have been awesome to apply that control mode-switching functionality with the landing gears and their shifting wheel areas to make switching a more delayed system, but now that is no longer a possibility.



The most recent working version of the hover bug (previous update 1.0.1.2) had vertical dampening, none of which the current thingies provide.
This would have been handy for the new creations using the anti-grav, because it is far more stable with anti-grav than hover bug lift spam, but with the YWVS dead, now only the good old HaVCS can do the job.
God knows how long that bug will last until it gets deleted as well.



Many users have noticed that the hover bug is no longer working.
Screen Shot 2018-12-04 at 2.15.00 PM.png
You can't just codename this thing the 'Hover Bug', it is an IMPOSTER.
An imposter that cannot meet the expectations of the original!
It is intended that this "Linear Motion Engine" replace the Original Legendary Hover Bug and this change is for the worst as the Linear Motion Engine is pathetic with it's thrust output and will never be able to rotate shafts like the hover bug did.

Wanted to make that merry-go round or Tech Ferris wheel?
Nope. Linear Motion Engine can't do that.

This means all old and future walkers are now DEAD.
No more mechas. No more auto harvesters. No more launchers!
This officially killed off all of the walkers. They doesn't even walk anymore!:(
All the rotating ball contraptions are dead too. No rotations.

Killing off the future generations of walkers by disabling the hover bug in newer saves eh?

This Better Future is turning out to be a Badder Future for all other corporations too since they now lack a hover ship method.

Let's take down this anti-hover bug notion to #BringBackTheHoverBug!
 
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NotExactlyHero

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#5
Who needs hovers when you have propellers ion thrusters?



The block is useful in some cases, but make no mistake I'm not sticking up for it. The linear motion engine relies on other forms of propulsion, compared to the hover bug which just needed... hovers.
 

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Legionite

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#6
This also:
The Hover Bug also doubles as a method to detect and interact with other Techs and resources to move on condition without human intervention.
Can the "Linear Motion Engine" do any of that?

NO!

This update has singlehandedly made the dinosaurs EXTINCT:


This dinosaur uses hover bug resource interaction, the hover bug axle drive, and the rotational Hoverbug foot thrust system!
It also took out the Robo-raptor.
Take that, Earth Destroying Meteor!
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#7
Many users have noticed that the hover bug is no longer working.
I don't understand this. I'm seeing it working fine in Creative and R&D modes in old and new saves.

@QuackDuck's Dire Wolf seems to work better than ever (for example), with the default "Car" scheme automatically gaining forwards/back cruising throttle controls (due to the HE rotors on the back). I added pitch, strafe and lift (up down) controls to this one:

Dire Wolf CS.png

So I'd like to [see] snapshots and saves that don't work as expected any more (it bay be down to other factors - of which there are many.


But anyway, in terms of phasing out the hover-bug - yeah, the interactions with resources and other stuff have allowed for a lot of interesting and creative non-intended uses. It would hollow out the soul of the game to squish that kind of thing out. Make it far too prescriptive to have a block for everything - no thrill in following the instruction manual...
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#8
it bay be down to other factors
I'll note that if you use a BF "Hover Power Controller" on a tech, set it to zero, or off, then remove the controller block, the hovers will still stay disabled. Which looks like a bug to me, @kae. (That's not how Pacemakers work, for example.) The state doesn't save to snapshot, though.
 
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Jamie

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#10
Hey @Legionite ,

We're gathering feedback on all this stuff - as we're very aware that you guys know the full extent of what the Hover Bug gave Tech builders better than we do. So help me gather some information here.

Let me start by saying;
1. We haven't fixed the Hover Bug in this build. It's still present, as you can see by @ZeroGravitas ' post.
2. As we add huge functionality changes and/or fix bugs (like the Hover Bug) - yes, some old Techs will cease to work as intended. This is something we always take into consideration and try to avoid, but sometimes it is necessary to make upgrades to the system such as this one.
3. Let's not forget - the Hover Bug is a BUG that needs to be fixed. We have set aside an entire wing of a new corporation just to allow Hover Bug functionality in a way that works as intended and with the rest of the game's systems.

Now, help me gain some simple info on each of these problems - so that I can pass things on to the dev team to get them discussed.
The new controls scheme was to replace the hover bug's land controls while airborne, it simply lacks that automatic toggling ability it should have had. It should be introduced back in somehow.
Would building a Tech designed to work this way (with the appropriate control scheme) work? Are you able to replicate land controls ("Car") in the air using Control Schemas and Steering Hovers?
It would have been awesome to apply that control mode-switching functionality with the landing gears and their shifting wheel areas to make switching a more delayed system, but now that is no longer a possibility.
I'm a fan of this too. It's being discussed.
The most recent working version of the hover bug (previous update 1.0.1.2) had vertical dampening, none of which the current thingies provide.
Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by vertical dampening, how you were doing it and what it achieved please.
the Linear Motion Engine is pathetic with it's thrust output and will never be able to rotate shafts like the hover bug did.
Can we get a Tech that rotated it's shaft nicely in 1.0.1.2 - but cannot be rotated using Linear Motion Engines in 1.0.1.3 please. We can look at adjusting their thrust output.
 

zanzistar

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#11
As Jamie said, and as I said on the stream, we're not removing the hover bug until we've provided a legitimate alternative for all of its uses. It's still present in 1.0.1.3 and it will still be in many updates afterward too.

Why would we? The hover bug enables some of the coolest builds in TT, why would we want to remove that? What we are trying to do is legitimise it to give everyone easier access to it.

Please put the pitchforks down and enjoy the update.
 

Legionite

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#12
Going into my game after figuring out how to get in, I found out that the hover bug seems un-removed, but different in a weird way.
It is currently unreliable now but it still exists.

Others may still be having problems with the hover bug not working and should send bugged-bug reports about it.

With the application of anti-gravity engines and the hover bug, I bring you the ultimate in airborne control!

The Ultimate Chassis.png
It should work most of the time.
 
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#14
Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by vertical dampening, how you were doing it and what it achieved please.
With the new hover control update in 1.0.1.2, hovers are able to dampen vertical velocity, so if you have a hover bugged tech, it would go up slower and fall slower at a constant rate (it feels like the hovers are resisting the change in height), unlike the old hover physics where if you have a hover bugged tech, it would go up normally, but would have a lower acceleration going downward.

It's kind of hard to explain, so using the tech below and comparing it's rising and falling speeds in the stable and unstable branches should help with understanding what this vertical dampening is.
All you need to do is hold Shift, watch how fast it goes up, then release Shift and watch how fast it falls. It should go up and down much slower in the unstable, that is vertical dampening in effect.
 

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ZeroGravitas

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#15
Is there now a momentary hesitation when loading a hover-bug-ship tech (for example), before the hover force fully kicks in. Or is that my imagination or lack of familiarity that there's something different there?
 
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#16
Is there now a momentary hesitation when loading a hover-bug-ship tech (for example), before the hover force fully kicks in. Or is that my imagination or lack of familiarity that there's something different there?
Could be the new feature where hovers deactivate in build beam. Or maybe they start out in their off state when the tech is first loaded.
 

Legionite

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#17
The Hover Bug is unreliable in this update as mentioned:
Screen Shot 2018-12-05 at 8.03.45 AM.png
It has been modified in some way as a result of this update and others don't have the hover bug with them anymore.

I have found that it turns off in build beam and even randomly shuts off during normal operation.
The switch can turn it back on but the random shut-off is very dangerous to airships at high altitude.


Would building a Tech designed to work this way (with the appropriate control scheme) work? Are you able to replicate land controls ("Car") in the air using Control Schemas and Steering Hovers?
This little flying AI used to pitch up and down under the power of the BF hovers, but it appears that AI pitching of hovers has been removed as of this update.
Archemedes AI.png

Can you explain to me exactly what you mean by vertical dampening, how you were doing it and what it achieved please.
Hover bug can do vertical dampening (like the one posted in com core), which allows non-drifting airships to be a reality.
The Hover Stabilization computer helps too, but it would be more useful if it tried to stay at a specific location, not just stop Tech momentum.
A new Positional Stabilization Computer should be the alternative as the current Hover Stabilization Computer has potential applications for speed control.

Removal of the hover bug would result in the end of both of these.

Can we get a Tech that rotated it's shaft nicely in 1.0.1.2 - but cannot be rotated using Linear Motion Engines in 1.0.1.3 please. We can look at adjusting their thrust output.
Linear engines only apply thrust linearly, they rotate all fans, forwards and backwards in their intended direction and cannot be used for rotational applications.
It would have also been handy if there was an alternate that could save an off-set default via UI and is responsive like the horizontal controls.
 
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#18
New The Hover Bug is unreliable in this update as mentioned:

It has been modified in some way as a result of this update and others don't have the hover bug with them anymore.
From my (admittedly rather brief) experience with the update, I haven't had this issue, I tried saving an airship in the new update to see if control schemes saved to snapshots and it seemed to work perfectly fine.
 
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Sdarks

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#20
As the other devs have said we have done nothing to intentionally change or break the hover bug. If you can provide examples of techs that work on previous updates and don't work in the current update it makes it a lot easier for us to take a look at why. Videos of before/after along with a snapshot would be perfect, although a snapshot or save with a description helps too. Also any techs that you can't replace the hover bug with a linear motion engine on would be appreciated too, along with a description of why you can't replace it so we can see what functionality is missing.