[1.0.1.3] Hover steers massively over-buffed

[ZeroGravitas]

After a bit of testing between 1.0.1 (stable) and this 1.0.1.3 (unstable), it looks to me like the force of all Hover Steering blocks has been increased to a whopping 400% (ish) of what it was (almost 4 times stronger)!

Left: old max lift capacity. Right: new max lift capacity.

They were definitely a little under-powered before. But I would have asked for an increase to 150%-200% of what they were, at most. (No more than half of the new value.)

They're now so powerful that hovercraft (or sports cars) don't need any fans or thrusters to easily reach 100mph. You can fly with just them easily too.

Also, a single hover steer is now way to strong to use on a small craft, sending my probe careening out of control:



...And all my hover steered helicopters (which I'm in the process of editing a video on) go totally bananas, of course:




I'm posting this as a bug because @Sdarks didn't know if it was deliberate. @zanzistar - you usually balance the block values, so I'll tag you too.

 

[Lord Zarnox]

Wait, those things actually provide lift? I never noticed that.

 

[Lord Zarnox]

Increased by a whopping 400% (ish) of what it was (almost 4 times stronger)!

That is either increased to 400%, or 5 times stronger.

 

[ZeroGravitas]

I'll also note, now, that I thought the gyros have perhaps been slightly overpowered since they were buffed, months back. The smallest one is too powerful to use in a very small aircraft. The (Venture) hover plates were crazy over-powered too, but I see we'll have controls for that now, so no problem...

Wait, those things actually provide lift? I never noticed that.

Only if you re-orient the cab 90 degrees upwards (and somehow keep the tech oriented).

That is either increased to 400%

Yes, an editing typo. Will fix.

 

[zanzistar]

Yeah, I gave them a buff, it wasn't too much more, but I can give them a nudge down a bit too.

 

[ZeroGravitas]

I gave them a buff, it wasn't too much more

As I say, the effective strength in game is a *lot* more. Somewhere between 3 and 4 times more powerful. Not sure if some other factor exaggerated this, perhaps...?

I also checked between 1.0.1 and 1.0.1.3 using this torsion balance - press [W] to compare hover steer strength against the pinwheel prop (~4 hover steers needed for approximate balance in 1.0.1 and ~1 in 1.0.1.3):

 

[zanzistar]

Thanks for the feedback, I've nerfed them down by 25% now. Let me know how they feel after the next update. Cheers!

 

[ZeroGravitas]

I've nerfed them down by 25% now. Let me know how they feel after the next update.

Okies, thanks. I'm pretty sure that'll still be very powerful, if it's a linear decrement, but I'll check it out. Any idea when the next update patch will be? (I'd have guessed soon than later, with lots of new stuff to tweak/patch...)

 

[zanzistar]

We're in a hardening sprint now so we'll start doing fairly regular unstables soon in the lead up to a stable update before Christmas, @saiwun might have more details though.

 

[saiwun]

Friday probably for the next TT Unstable update.

 

[ZeroGravitas]

I kinda don't want them to be nerfed now I've been having fun with them... But these applications do seem a bit ridiculous (my Community Core Showcase submissions):

The stabilising computer is the only new block here and it's optional. So even after nerfs, this kind of design will likely still be campaign viable from mid-game with Venture level 2 with a GSO level 4 crafting base.

 

[ZeroGravitas]

Cool - I can confirm that the lifting capacity of the hovers were substantially nerfed in 1.0.1.4 (by 1.5 GSO one-blocks):



But both my demonstrated hover steer aircraft work the same, loosing only 125mph down to 117mph top speed (on the dropship, for example). Which is interesting... Looks like this is the new aircraft meta, then (as far as I'm concerned). Groovy.


Edit 2018-12-31: for my reference, the tested power of the hover steers, in terms of how many GSO 1-blocks equivalent of weight they can each lift, are as follows:

Ven 5-way = 5
Ven 2-way = 7.5
Ven 1-way = 10
GSO Horns = 10

 

[ZeroGravitas]

So, @zanzistar - I'm now thinking that these are balanced OK. It's not like they can lift battery pyramids, and their top speed caps out around 200mph (as per my Community Showcase submission plane).

I've discovered that the Venture Hover Steers with fewer directions of control are balanced to be stronger. This tech cruises at 195, but adding a few additional 1-Way hover steers to the sides will take it up over 200mph (just - very diminished returns).

This is a little slower than a plane made out of Venture Zero Propellers, which can push up somewhere towards 220mph, I think. And maybe the BF Ion drives should be bumped up a little beyond that still...? (I'm ignoring thrusters, which can peak way above this but have poor average speed overall.)