[0.8.1.1] Planes load with off-axis pitch pivoting (sometimes)

ZeroGravitas

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#1
It seems like this bug may be most common with longer planes (not sure if ratio to width, or absolute size). Also, it happens most frequently (about half the time, or more) when using the tech replacement type of loading in Creative or R&D. In these modes any shape plane seems to be prone to this glitch (even the smallest I tested).

However, it can happen in campaign, with regular tech loading. Pitch axis appears to be 10-15 degrees offset to the right or left (I'm always just pitching or just rolling, except where I loose control):

Video, clip 1 (Campaign) - OK, mildly broken, OK. Clip 2 (Creative) - OK, broken, broken.

I'm surprised this hasn't been reported more (it seems to happen quite a lot, but probably most players don't know if they've just built the plane wrong - I thought so, at first). I mean, I think this is what was reported here in this thread by @Seth_Seth (and probably this thread by @Soviet_Samuelson too, in that case). However, there were confounding issues that confused the discussion there and it definitely does not seem to be limited to a particular wing type. Also, I'm not sure that @kae's assessment captured the whole issue...
I managed to repro this while loading the tech again while it wasn't quite grounded yet, I'll stick this in our systems.
So I made this new thread, to be clear - I can't see a distinguishing factor as simple as that as when this bug occurs, after testing it quite extensively. Even if the replaced tech is in build beam, anchored, or just totally flat on the deck on all wheels, sometimes it will load OK, and other times it won't.

I'm imagining the bug *might* even transmit between techs, like with the animation glitch on scrapper blocks, (totally speculative).

I've attached some of my test planes.
 

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ZeroGravitas

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#3
I have encountered this many times as well. It happens with hovers too.
Cool. No other reports about planes, though?

I'm wondering if it happens to vehicles too, but we don't notice it (is this what is happening in the reports where turning circle is tighter in one direction?). Or, if it doesn't happen when a tech is grounded...? But then if it happens to hovers, they are grounded...
 

Soviet_Samuelson

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#5
Heya ZG,
I'll take another look at this, see if I can see anything else with your test planes.

If there's anymore techs that any one else is having issues with please do upload a snapshot.

Cheers!
I can give you litterally every plane that i use venture wings on
 

ZeroGravitas

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#7
I'll take another look at this, see if I can see anything else with your test planes.
Cool. I think it's worth while making this somewhat of a priority (behind crashes, save errors, broken wheels, etc). And to be clear, it's not just specific weird shaped planes, it seems to be any plane, with repeated loading, particularly after you've already loaded a very bugged plane.

So the simplest of basic planes can be bugged and feel wrong, but it's just harder to definitively see the effect on short length planes, but it happens:

 
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ZeroGravitas

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#8
OK, @kae - so definitely not limited to bizzaro-length planes, as SSunday had this in his latest episode with his 7 block long "Sprussel" car-thing. e.g. at 7m41s:




I recreated the tech and it certainly shouldn't handle anything like that. Snapshot (and save attached):
Sprussel.png


He's still getting lucky with hitting these bugs. Although overall not bad this episode. (I'm wondering if some instances of tech duplication were edited out, if you guys have/will fix the save for him somehow, or if we have more major glitchiness to look forwards to...:))
 

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-=ROOSTER=-

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#9
Hello, If this post is totally botched in some respect go easy on me as it is my first. Anyways, I'm starting to get techs back differently than I snapped them. By this I mean they are identical in respect to the parts used and their placement, but balance and rotation (turning) are off. And not by a little either. Two of my best fliers are totally unusable. I have went back and pulled them apart piece by piece and though they are physically identical, they are as far as I can tell off by about one to two blocks in where the center weight balance point, and turning rotation center point (the opposite axis of the same point) should be. Following that point directly aft down center point to the correct placement point of the tail rotor, or was anyways. That one is off by about a four block distance straight down. Same blocks, locations, and orientations. It feels like physics engine prob rather than like corrupt snapshots. I wish I was familiar with enough with Unity to know how physics are handled. If they use PhysX then it could be a hardware issue on my end. I have 1 GTX card dedicated to PhysX now. I will swap them real quick and see what happens.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#10
I've just merged @-=ROOSTER=- 's new thread titled "0813 Unstable - Snapshotted Techs (helicopters and other VTOL) reload with changed properties." with this one that I'm pretty certain is on the same bug.

Hey there Rooster, thanks for the report.:) Are you really on 0.8.1.3? The unstable branch should currently be updated to 0.8.2.

I don't think rebuilding a tech won't help unless you start from scratch with a cab from inventory. You just need to try reloading the tech, reloading the save and/or reloading the whole game.
 

-=ROOSTER=-

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#11
Hey ZG! What's shakin' ? I took your advice to move over to this forum, but It didn't occur to me that it would be you handling the reply over here. It reminds me of when you were a kid (surely everyone experienced this once) and got sent to a new school and you walk in to class all uncomfortable. Then you look around and spot a familiar face and think to yourself "Hey I know that dude!" then it's all good. LOL
About the version thing. I read this (below) yesterday, and thought at the time I was correct, but maybe I misunderstood.
(Quoted from another thread):
Adriano, Nov 2, 2017
"The Stable build is always the same as the Unstable build that came before it. For example, the last Unstable build we released was 0.7.7.7. We deemed this solid enough to be promoted to the Stable branch, and it became Stable 0.7.8. Essentially, they are identical. So if you keep you Beta branch set to Unstable, when we announce the latest Stable, technically you already have the Stable, and have already been playing it. It just has a different version number. If that makes sense ;) ".

The reason I chose to post it ("it" being the original thread) as a separate thread (and I do occasionally overthink technicalities) was because even though the base issue may end up being the same, the use of the "hover bug exploit" not only disqualifies it from being a plane, but changes some of those rotation and balance points i was referring to.
Hey man, I did clearly state that I was going to screw this whole thing up before hand, so you're not allowed to now be surprised that I did just that. :)
 
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-=ROOSTER=-

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#12
Well I ended up with a little extra time on my hands today so I decided to go back into my R&D save and build another helicopter and snap it to see if it behaved as the last one did or not. Repeating the process turned up nothing - it is still working fine. However I have plane in R&D I use a lot to fly around from project to project that has been consistently good since I built it months ago. It always flown straight as an arrow and held altitude equally well. That's why I kept it around. Now suddenly it is pulling hard left and down. I swear this bug is following me now. LOL There has to be a logical correlation with something else at work here causing it. I can feel it, but just can't see it yet. .
 

ZeroGravitas

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#13
the use of the "hover bug exploit" not only disqualifies it from being a plane, but changes some of those rotation and balance points i was referring to.
Hover controls are certainly different to plane controls. But my feeling is that this axis pivot glitch can happen on any (mobile) tech, it's just that we're seeing it more clearly and easily on (long) planes.

We only see SSundee's car tech showing off-axis while it's airborne, but that' probably just because pitch or roll ad constrained while in contact with the ground.
 

-=ROOSTER=-

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#14
This is that humbling point where it finally sinks in that I came into this late and I then realize the significance of video, and finally understand that you are WAY ahead of me on this and It would be much more helpful for me to just stay out of the way on this one. (facepalm)
 

ZeroGravitas

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#15
It would be much more helpful for me to just stay out of the way on this one.
Not at all. I like more reports. It gives weight to issues that are affecting players a lot and are quite problematic, like this one, I think. Helps devs decide what to tackle first. Also more perspective clarifies what's happening - I'd not thought about hover bug techs at all, etc.
 
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#16
Not at all. I like more reports. It gives weight to issues that are affecting players a lot and are quite problematic, like this one, I think. Helps devs decide what to tackle first. Also more perspective clarifies what's happening - I'd not thought about hover bug techs at all, etc.
A side note on that: I went through my workshop and deleted almost everything that flies. Now they magically work in game again. Go figure.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#18
This tech posted in the Community Showcase #4 thread seems to have a 100% repro case. If loaded from snapshot it goes nose-up; if you detach and reattach any block to it, then it works fine.


Hmm, maybe that's something different then? There was an interaction between hover plates and shield bubbles not so long back, for example.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#19
I've been unable to replicate this off-axis pivoting issue in 0.8.2.2, so I'm assuming it's been fixed (I would appreciate others confirming). Another fairly big one down :) (without note).




Hmm, maybe that's something different then? There was an interaction between hover plates and shield bubbles not so long back, for example.
This tech tips back when loading it, but editing the tech at all fixes it. I think this is definitely a completely separate issue (not related to hover-plate bubble interaction either, as it happens before they're powered).
 

kae

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#20
We've had to apply only a partial fix for this for the time being, as the original codes maths is incorrect, but would require rewriting of the entire thing. Hopefully it fixes most issues, but please do make a new thread for any flying tech related issues! (Don't need to make one for that tech you posted above, i'll take a look at that ;))

Cheers!