[0.7.8.0] Refineries get overwhelmed by consecutive resources

ZeroGravitas

Breaker of Games
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
3,178
Likes
4,046
Points
675
Age
36
Location
UK
Website
www.youtube.com
#1
This is one of most frequently encounter bugs, with a mention in the "Known Major Issues" section of the patch notes for many months. From the 0.7.8.0 patch notes on Steam:
Multiple resources travelling close to each other along Conveyors may generate bottlenecks and clog bases up, especially around Refineries and Filters.
Refineries attached to the side of a continuous stretch of conveyor will only take 5 chunks consecutively, before pausing for 1 second (1 crafting cycle 'tick'). This allows an unrefined chunk to move past the refineries input port and block the output port, jamming the refinery and the conveyor system with unwanted, unrefined chunks.

Here's a video demonstration of the problem, to clarify things, which affects the new refineries too, and some example setups that successfully circumvent the issue.

Notes:
(1)
Of the failed setups, having 2 refineries in sequences does actually work (in this simple example), if you place them adjacent, with no gap between them. But the alternating refinery allocation behaviour (shown) seems to cause more problems elsewhere, in more complex setups.

(2) Inserting a refinery in a break in a conveyor will force all chunks heading to it to wait until it's ready for the next one. Good for a refining-selling base. And be used with crafting as a secondary rout to a fabricator, but will probably cause additional issues.

(3) Have the refinery output directly to your Fabricator and input from the end of the conveyor, so it automatically pauses, without needing a secondary route for non-refined resources (you would need other refining provisions to supply component factories).

(4) Pre-refine all resources (best option, mid to late game, as only a few low level blocks require raw resources). Refinery also appears to run continuously in this setup, with no pause after 5 chunks!?:confused: So this issue isn't a fundamental refinery limitation, it seems...?


Other bugs shown here:

(a) Isolated conveyor blocks have no intrinsic direction, but wrongly show as moving blocks towards the front of the tech (behaviour explained here).

(b) Contents of silos sometimes flip on game reload: bug report.


Previous threads on this bug:
 
Last edited:

Bgrmystr2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
373
Likes
295
Points
470
Age
30
Location
Gensokyo
Website
en.touhouwiki.net
#2
I want to note that the bottom tech of the 'good solutions' is not always a good one in every scenario.

It has the benefit of refining every resource in the silo. Which is good if you're only selling things. It's not good if you're crafting things. A refined resource cannot be used for an unrefined crafting recipe. It cannot be un-refined either.
 
Joined
Apr 2, 2017
Messages
3,527
Likes
2,625
Points
670
Location
Stalk me not
#3
Wait, you're a Canary. Why are you wasting your time posting this many bugs? You've already got Canary status. Just post a few bugs now and then to show that you're still in the game, without wasting all of your time on TT.

P.S. Screw crafting, terminals have infinite blocks now. Who crafts when they can buy everything?
 

Bgrmystr2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
373
Likes
295
Points
470
Age
30
Location
Gensokyo
Website
en.touhouwiki.net
#4
Wait, you're a Canary. Why are you wasting your time posting this many bugs? You've already got Canary status. Just post a few bugs now and then to show that you're still in the game, without wasting all of your time on TT.
Maybe, just maybe, some people don't post bugs to become canaries. They post bugs because it's the proper thing to do. Bugs need to be fixed to make the game function better for everyone. It has nothing to do with getting additional benefits. To report bugs only for one's own personal benefit would be selfish to begin with.

P.S. Screw crafting, terminals have infinite blocks now. Who crafts when they can buy everything?
Terminals only show blocks you've already discovered. You can't buy blocks you haven't crafted or found yet. Also, it requires maxing out the respective corp AND finding the payload terminal. Also, Payload terminals only work for the specific corporation it's for. So you won't be finding Venture blocks in the GSO terminal.

So yes, there is a reason why people would craft things. I craft GSO wheels and batteries for early game and the hawkeye magnets before I end up getting the terminals
 
Likes: Lord Zarnox

ZeroGravitas

Breaker of Games
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
3,178
Likes
4,046
Points
675
Age
36
Location
UK
Website
www.youtube.com
#6
Which is good if you're only selling things. It's not good if you're crafting things.
Certainly it's great for selling, if you use a Filter to pull out the refined chunks to an Orbital Delivery Canon. But obviously it's great for crafting compressed blocks too.:) And the majority of the regular blocks require only refined ingredients (I've tweaked my wording above on this).

Have you (or others?) seriously crafted a whole bunch of GSO one blocks in recent months, or low level GC parts? I always had a huge stash of the early blocks anyway. This is why I think calls for unrefined compressed resource blocks aren't essential.

But sure, I have removed the refinery from my feed-in silo on rare occasion, to turn some scrapped basic blocks into some other low level block I was somehow missing. That was before the massive Payload Terminal buff, though...

terminals have infinite blocks now. Who crafts when they can buy everything?
I do think this is a major issue with the game, currently (especially as there are so many bugs like this already deterring players from crafting). I feel like most players probably left building a proper crafting base until they were max level, and just wanted my Cruise missiles (could be wrong).

people don't post bugs to become canaries. They post bugs because it's the proper thing to do.
Sure, I never aimed to be a Canary (or to test MP early). But reporting bugs has kinda been a compulsion for me, and a meta-game that is as rewarding as any more serious regular game, with bonus human interaction (some times). And it's nice to be able to make a difference to something out in the world (as someone who can't do much productive, in general). People have different motivations for various reasons, is all.:)
 

Bgrmystr2

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 29, 2015
Messages
373
Likes
295
Points
470
Age
30
Location
Gensokyo
Website
en.touhouwiki.net
#7
Certainly it's great for selling, if you use a Filter to pull out the refined chunks to an Orbital Delivery Canon. But obviously it's great for crafting compressed blocks too.:) And the majority of the regular blocks require only refined ingredients (I've tweaked my wording above on this).
If you add a filter in between the silo and the refinery, you have changed the function of the base and it no longer applies. The reason I'm not a fan of it is because it automatically refines everything put into the silo. As soon as you prevent this from happening, I cease to have qualms with it.

Have you (or others?) seriously crafted a whole bunch of GSO one blocks in recent months, or low level GC parts? I always had a huge stash of the early blocks anyway. This is why I think calls for unrefined compressed resource blocks aren't essential.
Actually yes, I tend to use the crafting system quite often early game because you just don't get enough blocks. GSO's Dirt Wheels are always of significant importance early game. I tended to craft Fixed Anchors and Refineries as well. The former for attaching the small block magnets to before I get the SCU, and the latter I barely find enough purchasing and from enemies. Hell, Geocorp's Rugged Wheel used to be an important wheel to craft before GSO's Bumper Wheel existed. I also used to craft their Small Shock Plating as it covered a 2x2 area before you could anchor your techs and charge batteries mid-day. Also, I used to store Luxite (and other resources) by crafting many Blinker Headlights (and other blocks) for future breakdowns. Granted that was before PinkKitty's Treasure Blocks was implemented, but worth a mention.

Nowadays with the tech loading, I have multiple pre-made platforms I can freely furnish with whatever weapons I've found in the playthrough so far. They help ease the lack of an SCU and remove the need for Fixed Anchors. I still need to craft Dirt Wheels and Refineries every other game or so, but it's much less now than it was before.


I do think this is a major issue with the game, currently (especially as there are so many bugs like this already deterring players from crafting).
Not sure if I agree on this one. If anything, I feel that without this, crafting could feel very forced, and that's not a good thing. Imo, the value of blocks should be the limiting factor in what you're capable of purchasing. Even if you are capable of buying infinite amounts of items, you don't have infinite money. That is a big deal. That's all balance numbers, though. Easily changed.

Also, in my defense, I have a GSO crafting base I have slowly refined over and over via many renditions to where I am extremely happy with it's potential and efficiency. The only thing I've yet to implement is the component factory. It's a good build to compare to the ones you've posted in the OP.
TerraTechWin64_2017-11-05_23-01-22.jpg
 
Likes: ZeroGravitas

Klilidiplomus

Well-Known Member
Joined
Sep 22, 2015
Messages
36
Likes
77
Points
420
Age
27
#8
It appears this happnes because the refinery thinks the output spot is occupied, and so does not allow resources to enter, causing the blockage. The silos can hold more than one resource at a time, so the refinery never gets stuck, as demonstrated in the OP's video. As such, I found a workaround that allows refineries to not get stuck while crafting, while also allowing other types of resources past it. The workaround is to place an additional conveyor next to the refinery, so that the refinery can output to two spots. Merely surrounding the refinery with conveyors does not work; the refinery must have at least one free spot output to.

Here's a video demonstrating the workaround:


As you can see, the refinery refines every resource passed onto it. Also, another bug happens to be demonstrated here (the resources zooming in).
 

ZeroGravitas

Breaker of Games
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
3,178
Likes
4,046
Points
675
Age
36
Location
UK
Website
www.youtube.com
#9
Actually yes, I tend to use the crafting system quite often early game
Thanks a lot for your input @Bgrmystr2.:) Still mentally processing it a little. I checked the game properly and found there are a couple more parts needing raw than I thought, so updated my info-graphic and wording a little there. And still thinking about it...
:) There is a small range of blocks which do require raw resources (graphic below). However, these are all low end GSO and GeoCorp blocks (except the Hawkeye Wing Wheel) - cheap to buy and generally plentiful from destroying enemy techs. The exceptions being Fixed Anchors, Refineries and the new GeoCorp Bumpers (currently uncommon in the tech population).


Wood, Rubber Jelly, Luxite, Plumbite and Titanite are the main resources that are ever used raw. These are all harvestable in Grasslands, Desert and Mountains. Refineries are ironically awkward to craft, requiring Carbite, from Salt Flats or an Ice biome.
By all means give me some more input on the guide thread itself.:)
The only thing I've yet to implement is the component factory.
Heh, 'only thing'; I've been kinda opposite, in that I felt crafting (and crafting bugs) don't really start until you're using multiple Component Factories.:p;)

I like your little GSO bubble sized base, though. Particularly the refinery feeding 2 delivery canons.
 

ZeroGravitas

Breaker of Games
Joined
Jun 29, 2017
Messages
3,178
Likes
4,046
Points
675
Age
36
Location
UK
Website
www.youtube.com
#10
It appears this happnes because the refinery thinks the output spot is occupied, and so does not allow resources to enter, causing the blockage.
Yes, that seems like a very good way of explaining it. I think this is probably the exact same issue going on with Filters, when they fail to grab a resource from a line on a conveyor - only when feeding to another conveyor, not direct to a silo.

Great little adaptation for circumventing the issue - I'll have to add it into my guide.:) It's interesting how the Refinery output acts like an Alternator, rather than always outputting to a higher priority Conveyor block.

another bug happens to be demonstrated here (the resources zooming in).
Huh... That looks somewhat similar to the bug I reported with resources momentary glitching away from silos, but... That was on mobile techs that had moved from where they picked up the resources, and only happened upon anchoring.

Had you done something similar there? What's the context? How far are they coming from? And do you have a save game from just before it happens? (That you might upload to that thread?)