[0.7.7] Whole base was destroyed {vanished while away from it}

Telemak

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#1
Hi there !

I have just completed the "learn to fly mission" in campain but when I returned to my base it was entirely gone ! I have met 2 or 3 bugs before that with conveyors which had workarounds so it was fine, but the detroyed base bug is a very raging thing.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#2
@Telemak - I'm sorry to hear that. Sympathies.:(

This problem sounds like what others have reported, in a previous unstable version: base disappearing. Does that sound about right? Is your base entirely vanished? Rather than a pile of blocks (from enemy action). If so, it might be that your base was located on a world tile seam (which has been causing other problems, too).

It would be a fantastic help if you are able to upload a save game file from before that base (or a new one) disappears. I appreciate it might be a bit late to say now, but it's often best to manually back up save file, on a daily basis, at say. Even a screenshot of the base, showing it's exact map co-ordinates would let us figure out if it was on a tile seam. And the game's log file can be a help also, if you've not relaunched the game since the issue occurred.
You may be interested to know that the world tiles are a grid of 384 meter wide squares, with the first one centred on the {0,0} origin point, so it's edges are at {0,192}, etc.
 
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Telemak

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#3
@ZeroGravitas

@Telemak - I'm sorry to here that. Sympathies.:(

This problem sounds like what others have reported, in a previous unstable version: base disappearing. Does that sound about right? Is your base entirely vanished? Rather than a pile of blocks (from enemy action). If so, it might be that your base was located on a world tile seam (which has been causing other problems, too).

It would be a fantastic help if you are able to upload a save game file from before that base (or a new one) disappears. I appreciate it might be a bit late to say now, but it's often best to manually back up save file, on a daily basis, at say. Even a screenshot of the base, showing it's exact map co-ordinates would let us figure out if it was on a tile seam. And the game's log file can be a help also, if you've not relaunched the game since the issue occurred.
The problem really looks like what jyoumon has described indeed. My base entirely vanished, content from silos spreaded on the ground. I just didn't know about manual save and world time seam, I just don't play watching my in world coodinates.

I am glad if I can help. I just have exited the game after the bug and will provide any file I can.
 

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ZeroGravitas

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#4
The problem really looks like what jyoumon has described indeed.
Ok, cool. I'm going to edit your thread's title a little, to make it clear what the bug seems to be about, for other people to find. (And I'm not going to merge threads, so we can keep this one in the main bugs section, also for that reason.) Titles previously:
[0.7.7] Learn to fly mission completed and then whole base was destroyed
Thanks a lot for fishing out and attaching all the relevant files. Great stuff. Could well be helpful.

Having a quick look in your campaign save game, I see a series of neat little plies of resources where your base used to be.o_O


From my calculations, there is a world tile seam at 2112 north, just behind this (running left to right, along the brow of the slope, separating the plane, etc, from the trade station in the background). So I'm not sure if your base was actually on top of this seam, or just adjacent to it...

Did your base have a long conveyor, or other blocks, reaching out in the approximate direction of the trading station? Also, did your base have any cabs on it at all? (Could you switch to it?) If so, did you taken any snapshots of it that you can upload too?

Was the learn to fly mission the one with the start gate close by, next to the pyramid? Did you go on an extended flight after that? Say, further than 600 meters away?

Thanks again.:)
 
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#6
What is a world tile seam?
The connection between a "chunk" of the world between another chunk. Problems will happen if a tech straddles one as one side of it might be loaded but the other will not.

P.S. Can confirm this bug happens. My main tech disappeared after I anchored it. Didn't grab the output log because I'm dumb ;_;
 

Telemak

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#7
From my calculations, there is a world tile seam at 2112 north, just behind this (running left to right, along the brow of the slope, separating the plane, etc, from the trade station in the background). So I'm not sure if your base was actually on top of this seam, or just adjacent to it...

Did your base have a long conveyor, or other blocks, reaching out in the approximate direction of the trading station? Also, did your base have any cabs on it at all? (Could you switch to it?) If so, did you taken any snapshots of it that you can upload too?

Was the learn to fly mission the one with the start gate close by, next to the pyramid? Did you go on an extended flight after that? Say, further than 600 meters away?
Hello again,

Ok so it may be related to the seam.

Yes the neat little plies of ressources are a good indicators of my base location and boundaries. It wasn't a huge base according to what I can see on youtube but it was for me because my first base with logic, conveyors, silos I spent time to learn and achieve. No, it wasn't on top of the seam, but it was adjacent to it as you describe.

No long conveyor, or other blocks, reaching out in the approximate direction of the trading station.

No cabs on it at all.

Unfortunately, no previous snapshot as I explained I just played it as an epicurian. Maybe I can build something new and try to make it happens again, with backup save for you to get the information to debug.

The learn to fly mission the one with the start gate close by, next to the pyramid.

I did go on an short flight after that, but probably not 600 meters long ! I just can say my base wasn't on sight.

Thank you for acknowledging the bug.
 

Telemak

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#8
Again I apology for my english I learnt this language with video games.

Just a couple of question as I used to be a programmer in a previous life is it possible to automate the process of save file backup WHILE playing or do I have to save and quit the campain before I can copy the save file to a backup ?

Which files do I have to backup as you can see in the attached files I sent there are several files.

Thanks.
 
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#9
Again I apology for my english I learnt this language with video games.

Just a couple of question as I used to be a programmer in a previous life is it possible to automate the process of save file backup WHILE playing or do I have to save and quit the campain before I can copy the save file to a backup ?

Which files do I have to backup as you can see in the attached files I sent there are several files.

Thanks.
Your save file automatically saves once every 30(?) seconds, but as far as I know, you need to manually copy it to back it up.

You need to copy the .sav file, which can be found in Saves>[username]>Campaign in the TerraTech folder.
 
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Telemak

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#10
Ok I have written the save file and log auto-backup batch script however I am unable to reproduce the bug for now.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#11
@Django (excuse me for tagging you repeatedly, but these issues all seem related) - could it be that:

(1) Disappearing bases may only be happening to players with lower spec'd PCs, with less RAM, specifically when the game does this kind of thing (from Telemak's log file):
Unloading 120 unused Assets to reduce memory usage.
So that I (with a quite powerful PC) wouldn't be able to reproduce it?

@Telemak, excuse me, what are you PC specs (including RAM)?

(2) Could it be that bases without any cabs are prone to vanishing, as opposed to just glitch-dropping resources from silos? I found that many/all-but-one of the base anchors were de-anchored on my seam test bases, upon unload/load. So could complete de-anchoring be happening sometimes, for a split second, long enough to disintegrate a tech while it's tile, and whatever, is still loading/unloading (causing the blocks to fall away or be removed from world)?

Sorry, more armchair hypothesising.:rolleyes: And maybe you've already lanced this issue, in fixing the silo dropping...?
I've got a fix ready on my machine but wanted to do a little more testing before I push it to main branch :)
 

ZeroGravitas

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#12
I have written the save file and log auto-backup batch script
Oh, awesome.:D I'd though about making an AutoHotKey script for this, but just not quite had sufficient motivation, yet (and kinda didn't want to get snowed under with save files).

I wonder if it's potentially possible to trip the game up with this, if it happens to be copying at the exact same time as an auto-save...? Seems unlikely, perhaps impossible, if copying doesn't temporarily lock the file. (I did find that (accidentally) removing the (Creative) save game, then quickly replace an identical copy, caused a game crash...)
I apology for my english I learnt this language with video games.
It's very good, really; better than mine before my first pass of typo/spelling corrections.;)
 

Telemak

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#13
@ZeroGravitas

I have written a Java ugly little code in an infinte loop that look for .sav and _log.txt to copy them every ten minutes in an other directory named from current timestamp, then it zip the whole thing, then it removes other zip files older than one week. When copy fails, it does nothing until the next loop.

Here are the specs
 

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Adriano

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#14
Thanks guys, got this logged now. Someone else reported a similar issue on Steam. I've tried to repeat the issue in @Telemak 's save, building another base and flying off tile, but not had it happen. Hopefully we'll be able to repro it soon, cos this sure ain't great.
 
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Django

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#15
@ZeroGravitas Thanks for getting answers to some of the questions I was indended to ask, such as presence of cabs and where the base was in relation to the dropped resources.
Going by the location of the resources and the learn to fly mission I count it highly likely that at some point the base got unloaded briefly.
Could it be that bases without any cabs are prone to vanishing, as opposed to just glitch-dropping resources from silos? I found that many/all-but-one of the base anchors were de-anchored on my seam test bases, upon unload/load. So could complete de-anchoring be happening sometimes, for a split second, long enough to disintegrate a tech while it's tile, and whatever, is still loading/unloading (causing the blocks to fall away or be removed from world)?
Incidentally that is my main hypothesis I am currently chasing down.
As you note it's already been proven that an anchored base on reload will often have different (less) anchors anchored to the ground. With the recent changes to disintegrating tech without anchors and cabs, this is a likely contender for things going awry.
Unfortunately it does not explain the lack of blocks entirely.. so we'll see.

With a little luck someone manages to reproduce it with a savegame from before the fact so we can narrow it down much quicker. For now it's back to trying to recreate it myself.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#16
With a little luck someone manages to reproduce it with a savegame from before the fact so we can narrow it down much quicker. For now it's back to trying to recreate it myself.
Cool, I might give it a bit more of a poke then.:)
With the recent changes to disintegrating tech without anchors and cabs, this is a likely contender for things going awry.
Yeah, it'd be dumb not to suspect this wide-reaching change. Although, @jyoumon reported a vanishing base in 0.7.6.3 and tech splitting wasn't pushed out until 0.7.6.5 (without a patch note). Presumably a more recent cause than the old instances:
Disappearing bases is an ooooold problem :p
 
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Telemak

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#17
Thanks for acknowledging the bug. It is no longer in my hands except if I can provide requested saves later.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#18
I might give it a bit more of a poke then.
Poked. No joy here either. (Set up a bunch of additional, little bases, low to the ground, with no cabs, on and adjacent to a seam in creative. Then heavily stressed game's RAM use, with a bunch more big techs too (while flying about), to simulate a lower specced PC. But only succeeded in flinging even more resources about of the old silo dropping testers there, with bigger hangs when leaving/returning/loading save.:()

Also, made this ludicrously simple lookup table, for those who want to quickly see if they are positioned on a seam:
 

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#19
Ok @Django - I have a couple more thoughts on vanishing bases (but no reproduction, as yet):

(A) Is it possible for (e.g. 'dropped') resources, spawning in under a base right before it, to block the anchoring of the base. (And therefore destroy a base tech with no cabs.)

(B) What about the exaggerated failure to anchor, tech drop? Is it possible for that to happen during tile/tech re-loading? Having made this report, where a (trick) cab-less tech is disintegrated by anchoring drop damage (critical damage to any block makes it realise it shouldn't exist).

Or more specifically, an anchoring failure drop, where the base lands on the main/sole anchor and destroys it via impact damage...

Or not even destroys it - like it used to be (in a recent unstable), that damaging a sole anchor would cause it to pop off the ground and make the rest of the tech vanish:


The problem I've had with this these ideas is that the base (even on a fault line) seems very resilient at re-anchoring, even when there is a flood of resource chunks underneath! (It can be a very efficient method to duplicate a lot of res chunks, very fast: simply stroll back and forth over the load-in point, where there's a palpable game hang.)


Above - game running at ~2FPS, upon 4th or 5th reload of base.

I did somehow manage to get all the resource chunks in the base to vanish at one point, instead (and fail to realise it for a while)...
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#20
Unfortunately it does not explain the lack of blocks entirely..
How about something like this (from this recent Steam post) happening momentarily, or temporarily, unseen by player (when half-way returning, then turning back and it's fixed itself upon second tile reload):


It fixed itself when I left the area and came back, wierd bug though.
Certainly it's possible to pass through these gaps in terrain (from a 0.7.6.7 bug report):

Sorry; probably not insightful. Or maybe you've made progress anyway?