[0.7.7.0] Aspects wrongly aligned to tech's original orientation, rather than Cab's (a list).

Discussion in 'TT Stable & Console Bugs' started by ZeroGravitas, Sep 24, 2017.

  1. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    When a tech's primary (controlling) cab is re-oriented to a different plane to that of the tech's initial build orientation, a number of issues currently become apparent:

    (1) Speedometer is wrong - specifically when a tech is grounded (on wheels/hovers), it measures only the component of velocity in the original frame of reference's forwards/backwards. So, if cab (and wheel base) was tipped back 90 degrees, it will read out almost nothing, even at high speed. Flying is OK.

    (2) Anchor button will flip tech back into original build orientation - ignoring current pose, primary cab, wheels and the anchors themselves. (This 'feature' was very handy for the attached car-plane tech, which can flip-back anchor to launch vertically.) [Changed in 0.7.8.9 - new bug, see below.]

    (3) Build beam message - "Use to turn your tech upright." shows constantly, while blatantly driving around just fine. Shows while anchored back in original orientation (since cab is then flipped). [Edited 2017-10-12]

    (4) Build beam rotation - remains fixed to initial orientation, despite build beam itself holding the tech upright by cab orientation. So it can pitch/tilt the tech instead - as shown (in video) in this existing bug thread.

    (5) AI (friend and enemy) hate it - they can't drive because the build beam picks them up and holds them forever. And when anchored in initial orientation they just spin continuously on the spot (if the cab is pointed at the sky or ground).

    (6) Missing Block orientations - The accidentally missing rotations from blocks, and the rotations excluded deliberately from many (not all) of the crafting blocks all alight to the initial frame of reference. Listed in this other bug report thread.

    Potentially very confusing if a new player has managed to re-orient their main cab (as I did myself first time through): making it impossible to lay refineries/fabricators/etc flat. (Although they mostly need to be part of an anchored base tech anyway.)

    If fixing this to cab orientation, that might be one (cumbersome) way to allow advanced builders to have truly 3D crafting bases (by tipping the tech with cab re-orientation), while allowing blocks already placed to be rolled. (But messy and frustrating for editing builds; I'd prefer a toggle option or dedicated block for this.)

    (7) Sole Primary Cab can not be re-oriented away from initial frame ([F] and [G] locked out) - but then a sole cab can't be re-oriented from any other orientation either (so not strictly a part of this list). @higekun described this as a bug already (as with some of the above, too):
    Most of these problems can be demonstrated by the attached tech. This was previously shown in Community Core, and should be un-added to the enemy population (it was just meant as a concept demo tech), unless the AI control orientation bugs (above) are to be fixed soon.

    Popsicle VTOC Hybrid.png [/B]

    Edit: (8) Mini-map/radar direction arrow, my point backwards, if cab was reversed, etc.

     
    #1 ZeroGravitas, Sep 24, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 17, 2017
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  2. Adriano

    Adriano PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    Thanks mate, got this logged :)

     
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  3. streak1

    streak1 Well-Known Member

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    This also affects enemy behavior. If you rotate the cab 180° and build your tech, the enemies will drive around to the front of your tech, not the back.

     
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  4. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Hah! I'd been thinking of (one day...) doing a 'backwards playthrough', using the "invert steering" option, to have enemies just line up in front of my guns. But yeah, with this trick you wouldn't need to even change your fingering.:)

     
  5. Lord Zarnox

    Lord Zarnox Founder of the IFTTES

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    I personally find it annoying the speedometer doesn't actually measure the full magnitude of the velocity, and only measures it on the axis from front to back. This is especially annoying for hovercraft, as if you are sliding in a direction perpendicular to the front of the tech, it will say you are going at 0 mph, despite the fact that this obviously isn't the case.

     
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  6. missleMaster1793

    missleMaster1793 Well-Known Member

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    another thing, if no one noticed, tthe radar gets screwy too when you rotate your cab. oo! imma put this in a bug thread. one step closer to canary! yes!

     
  7. YAKFLY

    YAKFLY Well-Known Member

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    YO bugbotconfused

    CASE

    I want to build a very lean and clean design factory.
    Stock will be downstairs and inverted, up-down input and fabrication loops.
    Everything built on a pilar like a crane :

    [​IMG]

    - I can put upside-down component fabricators, thats OK.

    I realised that built blocks are sometimes stuck on this factory due to fabricators exits pointing upward, with a SCU on the ground.
    Then I decided to revert fabricators and components units.


    PROBLEMS :

    - I can't snap factories UPSIDE DOWN.
    Well I decided to built the tech with factories and stock upstairs, and then revert it by changing the CAB direction.
    I add an upside-down cab, remove the first one, and double click on build mode to revert it :

    [​IMG]


    FINE !

    Not exactly ...

    Its like the Tech has kept the memory of his original ground direction :

    - When in build mode, its not elevating from the ground normaly :
    [​IMG]
    Also right and left direction to rotate tech in Build mode are inverted.

    - When trying to anchor the pilar, it does not want :

    [​IMG]

    - If I click again on Anchor : its anchoring upside-down on a factory !

    [​IMG]

    - On this kind of reverted Tech I can't anymore put a factory on his normal upside-down direction :

    [​IMG]


    SUGGESTIONS :

    - Allow to snap FABRICATORS, REFINERIES, but also GENERATORS ect... whatever direction conveyors can be.
    - Each time the cab is moved on a tech, initialise the "upside-down" direction from the new one of the cab.


    THANKS to all the team ! bugbotconfused

     
    #7 YAKFLY, Dec 11, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  8. YAKFLY

    YAKFLY Well-Known Member

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    I can even anchor my tech upside down bugbothappy

    [​IMG]

    If I unanchor at this moment, then I'm falling under the ground ! (The first time in history someone can see inside the planet !)
    Until I'm reaching -3000ft if I remember well, then my tech does appear again upside down, half sank on the ground.

     
    #8 YAKFLY, Dec 11, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2017
  9. Adriano

    Adriano PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    Thanks for this @YAKFLY , it's a known issue in the studio, and is related to building with a cab not in it's "natural" rotation (i.e. not facing upright or pointing forwards), then activating build beam. Build beam has a dual function - to make it easier for players to build techs (so they can get in underneath them) and to help you flip your tech upright when it's accidentally flipped over. It's the last function that causes the problem, since build beam uses the cab to judge the correct orientation and set it accordingly. Not sure what the best way to fix this is yet without restricting cab orientations, but we're looking into it. As for not being able to attach crafting blocks any way but upright, this should only affect GSO crafting blocks if I remember correctly. We should probably make this consistent across all corporations to prevent confusion.

     
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  10. YAKFLY

    YAKFLY Well-Known Member

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    I confirm for the moment that all fabricators, refineries and generators can only be attached upward.

     
  11. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    I've merged @YAKFLY's new thread titled "[0.7.8] UPSIDE DOWN BUG" with this existing thread, seeing as it is primarily reporting on these issues.

    I made a full list in this report thread listing missing block orientations (also linked above):
    [​IMG]

     
    #11 ZeroGravitas, Dec 12, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 12, 2017
  12. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    I can no longer get my tech to flip back like this, however...

    Rotating anchors now rotate in the wrong plane when their tech's primary cab is in a different orientation plane to original. i.e. The anchors latch to the ground in the new orientation, but rotate in the initial one.

    Then, when the tech is re-anchored after falling over sideways, the anchor deploy direction is offset by the amount it had rotated by. See this snapshot:

    Sideways rotation 1.png

    My old 'Popsicle' tech (above) loads in really wrong too, can't quite fathom the logic:
    Popsicle VTOC Ranger.png

    @Adriano.

     
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  13. Adriano

    Adriano PAYLOAD STUDIOS

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    Cheers @ZeroGravitas , took me a few attempts but was able to get it to happen in the end. Sorry we broke your Popsicle tech ;)

     
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  14. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Heh, and Lathrix discovered this one in today's episode (where he'd re-oriented a tech to use the EXP AA guns on their side):): at 26m56s



    So I guess the team can prioritise fixing this now, @Adriano...?:p;):)

    Of course the wheel selection that will work with re-oriented cabs is now pretty limited, given the new horizontal limits on them.

     
    #14 ZeroGravitas, Mar 17, 2018
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2018
  15. Lord Zarnox

    Lord Zarnox Founder of the IFTTES

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    By the way, a tech doesn't need to be upright to anchor if it has an anchor facing sideways within range of the ground, and a anchor on the bottom of the tech to anchor with. The tech will orient itself relative to default orientation, making this useful for righting flipped techs. Unfortunately, I cant remember how long ago tho was, but if it still works, it could help some people.

     
  16. Lord Zarnox

    Lord Zarnox Founder of the IFTTES

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    AAA - Anti-Aircraft Aircraft.
    Nuf said.

     
  17. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    Nope, this was fixed in 0.7.9 (or fairly recently, anyway). Broke my "lollipop" VTO scout plane / turret.

     
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  18. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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    This was fixed in 1.0.1, but only for allied AI cabs, oddly. Enemy techs still get stuck in build beam if they are reoriented vertically, when split, etc. (e.g. my failed Halloween pumpkin rat deployment snapshot attached.)

    I'm not sure what this fix was aimed at...? I'd assumed it was spurred by the issues some of the new explosive bolts techs had. But (ironically) it doesn't fix any of them, being enemies.

    Obviously it hasn't fixed any of the other issues (above) caused by tech reorientation, either (radar arrow direction, speedometer, BB rotation axis). @kae - Any chance there will be a more comprehensive fix for all of this (rather than patching each of the symptoms)?
    I see quite a few (great) techs with this bug accidentally built in (including by me), and it's pretty harsh to have to start from scratch to fix it. It's also blocked a lot of creative (enemy) tech submissions from even happening, too. I think it'd definitely be worth addressing before too long (if it's not already under investigation).

     

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    #18 ZeroGravitas, Nov 1, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 1, 2018
  19. ZeroGravitas

    ZeroGravitas Breaker of Games

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