[0.7.5] Component Factories request superfluous resources during part Fabrication (sometimes).

ZeroGravitas

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#1
There seems to be lots of little problems with automated crafting that I've experienced in 0.7.5.0 and appear to still be there in unstable 0.7.5.3. I've attempted to pin one down, here, but I can't see that there's a hard and fast rule for why this fault sometimes does and sometimes doesn't happen.

In the video below, there are a couple of examples showing where the fabrication chain has automatically requested an additional set of materials for the component factory. This appears to happen as the factory takes them off the conveyor, like it looses sight of them inside the factory's input buffer. But also one example (of a few runs) of the same tech build working correctly (after no particularly specific fiddling about).


Related crafting bugs:

Playing the campaign, I found the problems and idiosyncrasies of the crafting pretty frustrating, as I like to set up clever automated systems, but it behaved so strangely and unreliably that it just wasn't worth having a crafting base at all (hence not worth collecting resources, etc).

Another fault seems to be that fabrication chains don't work for making blocks with components who's component have components... (i.e. parts that require exotic components, like 'Seed AIs' and 'Proxima Dark'). At least, I've only managed to do it by manually stepping thought the component process (which just isn't worth the hassle, compared to killing other techs of parts/scrap). And that seems to be what's happening with this bug report from @Babbelicious.

To be honest, I wasn't expecting to have such a swanky, automated system for crafting in the game, so these problems wouldn't be such a big deal, except that more long-winded setups for one click crafting (that would rely on lots of continuously repeated component production in parallel) don't work either. E.g. because when the output from component factories is blocked, they half fill their input buffer then keep repeatedly requesting more of the resources that wouldn't fit in. As reported by @Deemedrol, here.
 
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ZeroGravitas

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#2
OK, slight update to this, after 0.7.5.4 release today.

I finally managed to get a number of manufacturing setups to auto-build top tier items in R&D (e.g. Cruise missile, Avalanche, Megaton Cannon). :) I don't know if this is due to changes related to the "Fixed recipes switching between component factories, which loses resources", seemingly in response to this other previously linked bug report.

I even had a configuration where no extra resources were ordered. :cool: But then I shuffle the factories down the line a little and changed out a couple of dongles and it started making a total mess again. :(

@Adriano, can you tell us if these auto-manufacturing mechanics are still under active development at the moment? With known issues and inconsistencies? Is it probably not worth us trying to figure out what's going on/wrong for the moment? (Would love to design a rapid craft everything machine for my campaign play, but mechanics still seems haphazard/ambiguous.)
 
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Pink Kitty

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#3
Most of the problems in the vid were caused by the refinery not working quite fast enough.
This is one reason i pre-process all resources.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#4
Most of the problems in the vid were caused by the refinery not working quite fast enough.
With much respect, I'm pretty sure you are mistaken.

Watch the first instance carefully, it goes like this:
  • Two raw plumbite and one raw luxite are called (to make the 'plumbonic greebles').
  • All 3 chunks are processed consecutively by the refinery without trouble.
  • As each processed chunk enters the component factory, another raw one of that type is (spuriously) pulled from the silo.
  • The first of those, plumbite, is processed by the refinery just before the factory mint the component.
  • Factory then stops calling for those repeat resources so the luxite isn't pulled in by the refinery (jamming the conveyor).
  • The second piece of plumbite has only had chance to step onto the first conveyor block, so gets pulled back into the refinery.
I've seen refineries fail to process every chunk in a continuous stream (and mess things up), this wasn't that. I don't know if it might have been fixed without note in the last couple quick patches, I've not re-tested, and it wasn't consistent here, as I showed (with it working ok too).
 
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Pink Kitty

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#5
With much respect, I'm pretty sure you are mistaken.

Watch the first instance carefully, it goes like this:
  • Two raw plumbite and one raw luxite are called (to make the 'plumbonic greebles').
  • All 3 chunks are processed consecutively by the refinery without trouble.
  • As each processed chunk enters the component factory, another raw one of that type is (spuriously) pulled from the silo.
  • The first of those, plumbite, is processed by the refinery just before the factory mint the component.
  • Factory then stops calling for those repeat resources so the luxite isn't pulled in by the refinery (jamming the conveyor).
  • The second piece of plumbite has only had chance to step onto the first conveyor block, so gets pulled back into the refinery.
I've seen refineries fail to process every chunk in a continuous stream (and mess things up), this wasn't that. I don't know if it might have been fixed without note in the last couple quick patches, I've not re-tested, and it wasn't consistent here, as I showed (with it working ok too).

Maybe. Easy test: pre process the resources. does it still happen?
 

ZeroGravitas

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#6
pre process the resources. does it still happen?
That's exactly what's happening in "Example 2" at 1m30s in the video, although it's a little harder to see (I accidentally popped up a menu for a second), but there is clearly additional carbius and oliete called out for an unnecessary loop, from the big silo of entirely processed resources. Incidentally, that's a bastardised version of @Chrii_the_Vieh's "CraftitallV7" I was trying to get (re)working properly.

Just re-tested and that setup still calls extra resources, although the game now schedules components from different factories... (And anyway, if it had of started working when pre-processing the resources, that could also mean other things, like any refinery in range (or wrong position) is messing things up, or could just be a total coincidence, given I had inconsistent results before, with the same setup re-built.)
 

Adriano

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#8
@ZeroGravitas Hey man, sorry for my late reply. The crafting system does still need some polish, though our focus right now is on multiplayer and the new Venture missions. A few crafting bugs have been reported over the last week or so, once the Stable is released I'll start investigating them further :)
 

ZeroGravitas

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#9
The crafting system does still need some polish, though our focus right now is on multiplayer and the new Venture missions. [...], once the Stable is released I'll start investigating them further :)
I guess you can't say fairer than that.:)

I really do think it very worth while finishing up the functionality of crafting - it will really help to anchor players in the game. Possibly more important than non-campaign multi-player, in my opinion, in the long run (though I await being proved wrong); in 0.7.5.0 crafting just wasn't *quite* there, with high tier auto-crafting seemingly just not working (and other idiosyncrasies, as above), crafting bases weren't quite worth it, so organised resource bases weren't quite worth it, so collecting resources wasn't really worth it either... Pretty big knock-on through the rest of the game-play, I felt. I'd love to replay the campaign from scratch in 0.7.6 with these issues resolved.:)
 

Zed

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#11
I guess you can't say fairer than that.:)

I really do think it very worth while finishing up the functionality of crafting - it will really help to anchor players in the game. Possibly more important than non-campaign multi-player, in my opinion, in the long run (though I await being proved wrong); in 0.7.5.0 crafting just wasn't *quite* there, with high tier auto-crafting seemingly just not working (and other idiosyncrasies, as above), crafting bases weren't quite worth it, so organised resource bases weren't quite worth it, so collecting resources wasn't really worth it either... Pretty big knock-on through the rest of the game-play, I felt. I'd love to replay the campaign from scratch in 0.7.6 with these issues resolved.:)
I agree with this with one major exception:

I'd love to replay the campaign from scratch in 0.7.6 with these issues resolved
The crafting system is unlikely to receive any updates prior to 0.7.6 stable release per @Adriano quoted below:

A few crafting bugs have been reported over the last week or so, once the Stable is released I'll start investigating them further
Which is wholly reasonable given the update process consistently producing a new stable update every 5 to 8 weeks on average.

That said, I agree with @Pink Kitty when stating that the crafting system is as of yet unfinished. My own Personal benchmark for the crafting system will remain that a base such as the Geo TreadWalker mk1 can consistently fabricate any block requested with a single Component factory being sufficiently autonomous to produce all needed (sub)components in the proper sequence required to complete the block consistently. The ability for a fabrication station to complete a Venture Grade 3 Missile launcher (example block) with a single component factory when requested would seem to be a higher priority than mutliplayer capabilities given the renewed emphasis on crafting blocks as opposed to purchasing blocks as needed.

Realistically speaking, I do not expect yet remain hopeful that this specific benchmark of mine for the in-game crafting system of Terratech will be fulfilled for 0.8.0 stable.
 

ZeroGravitas

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#12
More relevant talk and demonstrations on this bug on my other manufacturing bug thread about needing a refinery for exotic component crafting, even with only pre-refined resources:
In short: no, the devs need to make this work, because it should. :p;)

In long: sure, here:
View attachment 15027

Ok, so I made 3 changes:
  1. Fabricator to the right - on the left, it just wouldn't run without the unnecessary re-ordering bug making a mess. I don't know if having the Fabricator directly linked to the output of a (top level) Factory is the key here, or what (I've got very mentally fatigued with all this).
  2. I connected the refinery at the top end, since it wouldn't enable Seed-AIs from the bottom left.
  3. I looped the conveyor back to the silo instead, as a cut-out; the scheduling algorithm prefers to send components all the way around the loop when it could take a much quicker path directly between Factories. I think maybe it is naively using physical distance between factories/refineries, instead of actual path-length along conveyors and such.
And just so that devs and other don't get teh wrong impression, with me only showing videos of thinks working or failing very neatly, here's a compilation of all the things I just tried with this little setup.

Thanks for prompting me to check this out, @DerNiepe, and presenting such neat little test builds. Couldn't have got this far without these, for sure.:)
 

Adriano

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#13
Have now added a ticket for this to our database. I figured it was connected to the refinery, but as stated above it can also happen with refined resources, though it seems to have less chance of clogging the conveyors in that case. Anyway, there's no obvious reason for it to be occurring, which likely means the code guys will have to take a closer look at it. Thanks for all the help with identifying the issue guys :)
 

Highlander1000

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#14
The Fabricators don't accept some resources when building something.

1.Started to build an Hawkeye rocket
2. Fabricators requests resources as normal but don't accept some
3.removed refineri
4. fabricator accept resources as intended

save is atteched and the progress is ongoing (you are able to witness the bug)

(sorry for my bad grammar)
 

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ZeroGravitas

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#15
Hey @Highlander1000, thanks for joining the forum to make this bug report.:) [Edit: new thread titled "[0.7.7] Fabricators don't accept resources"now merged with this thread.]

I've taken a look at your save, and what I'm seeing is 2 (or 3) separate crafting bugs that I've logged myself, previously and have been waiting to be fixed for several months now. And I think you meant to say "component factories" in the title, rather than the actual Hawkeye "Fabricators", yes?

(1) "[0.7.5.7] Won't craft blocks with exotic components (e.g. Seed AI) without unnecessary refinery."

(2) "[0.7.5.x] Component Factories request superfluous resources during part Fabrication (sometimes)."


Your save file as I opened it (without refinery, component factories won't queue up sub-components for the seed AI):



After adding a refinery - the component recipes are now showing, but resources are still bypassing the first (right most) component factory. Specifically, Erudite. I believe that what is happening is that the second component factory is spuriously requesting more Erudite for itself (even though it doesn't need it), stealing the chunks that should go to the first factory.


The first one is constantly re-requesting Celestite too. (By the way, you didn't have enough Celestite in storage so I had to scrap a brick to get things going.)

So, I've appended your report here - number (2). you think the first 1 is more what you were reporting, or there is something else entirely happening...?:)

(The 3rd partial fit is this: "Component Factory orders resources even though it cannot produce components", also with extra reources being continuously requested.)

@Adriano, could you look at linked thread (1) and check it's definitely logged, please.:) It comes up a lot. (And might be fairly easily fixable...;))
 
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Klilidiplomus

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#16
Just to add to this, I found out Component Factories requesting excess resources isn't random - it has to do with the way a crafting base was built. Building fabricators first will cause CFs to glitch, while constructing fabricators last ensures the Component Factories will work without any problems. To demonstrate this, I have attached a save (Unstable version 7.8.1) which contains two near-identical crafting bases (the other one has a different default orientation, but that should not matter). Set both bases to craft a Venture Globetrotter Wheel to see the difference.

Another possible fix is to completely detach the fabricators from the base, and then reattach them. This should fix any excess resource requesting from the base.
 

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ZeroGravitas

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#17
Building fabricators first will cause CFs to glitch
Ah! Well figured out! Brilliant.:D

I had been finding that the order of attachment makes a difference between whether or not certain very compact minimal all-crafters (with 4 Component Factories) will work - a total nightmare, as I got a working setup that I couldn't reproduce later, lol.

But i'd not re-examined these basics for a long while. This seems like really helpful info that should help fix these glitches, when crafting finally gets much needed attention!;)


So, to demonstrate (on @Klilidiplomus' save setup): on the lower Fabrication base, build a Venture Cruz Cab - look carefully for extra resources moving about, from/between the silos, after the components begin crafting, probably one makes it to the end of the conveyor. Then remove and replace the venture Fabricator and repeat crafting the same block, should be fine now.:)


Edit 1: darn, it looks like this may also be the problem I was having with testing parallel crafting lines of CFs feeding the same Fabricator; I was moving the component factories about to check different things, with the Fabricator already fixed in place... Interesting.:)

Edit 2: @Sammi - could you please ensure Klili's finding, above, is added to the ticket for this? Seems like it could aid a quick fix for a very confounding issue. Thanks.:)
 
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Gayvid`

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#18
When trying to craft , resource constantly skip past component factories , it's really annoying , it's the reason why i never craft , is because that! I have 6 component factories , yet even if still some of them are unused , they act like i don't have enough component factories and a certain component can't be made , because once again , they skip past them , please FIX THIS.
 
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